» Site Navigation | | » Recent Threads | | | 1999 M3 Swap 09-07-2023 10:10 PM 06-01-2024 03:04 PM 7 Replies, 409,823 Views | | My 318ti build 05-21-2024 04:48 PM 05-28-2024 06:42 PM 1 Replies, 3,601 Views | | OMG!OMG! 05-28-2024 08:53 AM 05-28-2024 08:53 AM 0 Replies, 1,431 Views | | | | | | 09-14-2016, 07:31 PM | #1 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | Mechanical Belt Tensioner - INA vs. BMW Regarding the spring loaded accessory belt tensioner on the M44 - does anyone have experience with INA vs. original BMW? Price difference is about half. Some concerns I have, other than longevity, are whether replacement pulleys can be ordered for the INA. The original (for which pulleys are available) used a hex head bolt that recessed deep into the center of the pulley, while it appears that both the INA and the current BMW offering use a Torx head fastener that is flush with the pulley face. I also saw a review on Pelican Parts that states the dust cover doesn't fit the pulley used on the INA. In the pictures that I'm seeing online, the BMW part appears to use the same pulley as the INA, that is, no provision (groove) for the dust cover. Wondering if the pics are wrong, or if BMW made a change. But more important than the dust cover, I want to be able to replace just the pulley when the bearing goes dry. Paul '96ti 231,000 mi | | | 09-14-2016, 09:47 PM | #2 | ti Daily Join Date: May 2015 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 43 | INA is the OEM supplier for BMW. Excellent quality. I always order INA for pulley and tensioner parts for my e36s and for the timing belt tensioner on my e30. As far as the pulley bolts and dust covers go, these have changed on some, but not all. The last M44 tensioner I did was August of 2015 and the bolt head was unchanged and I was able to reuse the dust cover. It snapped right on. But I had to put a new serpentine tensioner on an M52 (98 328i) in February and the bolt was completely different and the dust cover wouldn't fit. I also put a new idler pulley on and it was unchanged from the original. Didn't really matter to me as I was rescuing the car from a crap head PO and finding a new home for it. Know that changes are more and more likely as production spreads out all over the world. A hex bolt may take the place of a torx bolt or vice versa, a groove for a dust cap may be omitted, or in my case, the bolt head was no longer recessed enough and the dust cap wouldn't go on at all. I have seen Behr parts over the last couple of years that were made in a variety of countries: Germany, Turkey, India, and Indonesia. I still have confidence in Behr and INA parts, though. Ken __________________ 1992 325iC M Technic appearance Diamantschwarz 5 spd. heated seats 1993 325iC Schwarz II 5 spd. SOLD 1997 318ti Active Boston Gruen, Sandgrau w/M Technic interior swap Millpoint Gray 1999 M Roadster Dakar Yellow II, Dinan Stage 3 software, high flow throttle body, and CAI 2001 Z3 3.0i Coupe Black Sapphire Metallic BMW CCA 369408 Last edited by e30topdown; 09-14-2016 at 10:02 PM. | | | 09-14-2016, 09:53 PM | #3 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | I noticed in the online pictures, that the OEM version is stamped both "BMW" and "INA", while the OEM version is stamped "Germany", the INA version is stamped "Slovakia". Of course that is always subject to change, and maybe the OEM versions are now being made in Slovakia as well. The one thing that I can't get a good feeling for, is whether the pulley alone can be replaced on the INA, as it can on the original BMW tensioner that the car came with. | | | 09-14-2016, 10:08 PM | #4 | ti Daily Join Date: May 2015 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 43 | On a tensioner, I wouldn't change the pulley out. I now only replace the entire tensioner. I have had two tensioners on 15+ year old cars (and low mileage <50k miles) break when I was unbolting them. They are made from cheap pot metal that doesn't stand up well to vibration and engine heat over the years. They must develop stress cracks. I used to replace the pulleys but don't any more. Not worth my time to have to go back in and do it again later or risk the tensioner cracking apart while the engine is at speed going down the highway. Hope this helps. Ken __________________ 1992 325iC M Technic appearance Diamantschwarz 5 spd. heated seats 1993 325iC Schwarz II 5 spd. SOLD 1997 318ti Active Boston Gruen, Sandgrau w/M Technic interior swap Millpoint Gray 1999 M Roadster Dakar Yellow II, Dinan Stage 3 software, high flow throttle body, and CAI 2001 Z3 3.0i Coupe Black Sapphire Metallic BMW CCA 369408 | | | 09-15-2016, 12:41 AM | #5 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | This is the original tensioner, and this is the 3rd pulley in 20 years. I had a chirp, on startup and acceleration, which I traced to the pulley. After replacement, the chirp is now intermittent, still coming from the pulley, but I believe is due to the tensioner internals, not the pulley. I don't know if the pivot point is worn or something is going on with the spring. I'm probably going to replace it with the INA part. | | | 09-15-2016, 03:04 PM | #6 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 595 | Quote: Originally Posted by paul somlo This is the original tensioner, and this is the 3rd pulley in 20 years. I had a chirp, on startup and acceleration, which I traced to the pulley. After replacement, the chirp is now intermittent, still coming from the pulley, but I believe is due to the tensioner internals, not the pulley. I don't know if the pivot point is worn or something is going on with the spring. I'm probably going to replace it with the INA part. | I am also changing my belt tensioner assembly due to metallic chirping. I am not sure if the Gates will be ok but I bought it from Rockauto and will give it a try. I should get it tomorrow and install it this weekend. __________________ 1996 Ti 280k miles and still going.... 1993 964 - holding on to this one 2001 Burban, 240k miles 2018 Suburban Z71 | | | 09-15-2016, 05:00 PM | #7 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | Quote: Originally Posted by bazar01 I am not sure if the Gates will be ok but I bought it from Rockauto and will give it a try. | I had the Gates tensioner in my cart at Rockauto for a few days, but ended up ordering the INA from ECS for $56 shipped. I almost went with BMW on this, but the $120 price tag was a bit hard to swallow. INA is the maker on the BMW branded part, although online pics show the BMW part stamped "Germany", while the INA branded part is stamped "Slovakia". I wouldn't be surprised if the pics were old and all production had moved to Slovakia. I tend to trust Gates parts, though, and have never lost sleep over using their belts and hoses. Just a tip - after replacing the pulley and still experiencing chirp, I tried to remove the original tensioner to check for play, etc.. I say tried, because I stripped the head of one of the two fasteners that secure it. They require a 6mm hex bit. I don't normally have trouble with fasteners on that car, but the one fastener stripped almost immediately, while the other loosened with no problem. My advice would be to spray some Kroil or what have you, then make sure to clean out the center of the hex head, then put a small punch in the hex and rap it with a hammer a few times. When my part arrives, I'll be doing some bolt extraction. | | | 09-15-2016, 06:00 PM | #8 | ti Daily Join Date: May 2015 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 43 | Sucks on the bolt extraction. I concur on the penetrant though. Those bolts can be stuck from corrosion. Probably why I broke one of those tensioners. It was the hydraulic style and didn't have a lot of thickness in the metal wrapped supporting that bolt area. Gates would be fine, too. I use Gates on all domestic cars. Prefer Contitech belts and INA tensioners and pulleys for my BMWs. __________________ 1992 325iC M Technic appearance Diamantschwarz 5 spd. heated seats 1993 325iC Schwarz II 5 spd. SOLD 1997 318ti Active Boston Gruen, Sandgrau w/M Technic interior swap Millpoint Gray 1999 M Roadster Dakar Yellow II, Dinan Stage 3 software, high flow throttle body, and CAI 2001 Z3 3.0i Coupe Black Sapphire Metallic BMW CCA 369408 | | | 09-15-2016, 08:45 PM | #9 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 595 | Quote: Originally Posted by paul somlo Just a tip - after replacing the pulley and still experiencing chirp, I tried to remove the original tensioner to check for play, etc.. I say tried, because I stripped the head of one of the two fasteners that secure it. They require a 6mm hex bit. I don't normally have trouble with fasteners on that car, but the one fastener stripped almost immediately, while the other loosened with no problem. My advice would be to spray some Kroil or what have you, then make sure to clean out the center of the hex head, then put a small punch in the hex and rap it with a hammer a few times. When my part arrives, I'll be doing some bolt extraction. | Stripped allen cap screws suck. I am replacing the tensioner assembly. It looks like I have to remove the power steering pump because the pump pulley is blocking the screws. Is this correct? __________________ 1996 Ti 280k miles and still going.... 1993 964 - holding on to this one 2001 Burban, 240k miles 2018 Suburban Z71 | | | 09-15-2016, 09:51 PM | #10 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | Quote: Originally Posted by bazar01 It looks like I have to remove the power steering pump because the pump pulley is blocking the screws. Is this correct? | I've seen that mentioned in other posts, but I was able to get a ratchet on both fasteners without removing the pulley. On one of the fasteners, it helped to rotate the tensioner all the way and pin it (the shipped configuration on a new tensioner). This is on the M44, and I didn't remove the screws all the way, just loosened (or attempted to loosen). | | | 09-15-2016, 10:34 PM | #11 | ti Daily Join Date: May 2015 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 43 | Quote: Originally Posted by bazar01 Stripped allen cap screws suck. I am replacing the tensioner assembly. It looks like I have to remove the power steering pump because the pump pulley is blocking the screws. Is this correct? | I loosened the steering pump enough to get wiggle room and get bolts out. I do remember locking the tensioner back with a small screwdriver like it was before installation. Good memory, Paul! __________________ 1992 325iC M Technic appearance Diamantschwarz 5 spd. heated seats 1993 325iC Schwarz II 5 spd. SOLD 1997 318ti Active Boston Gruen, Sandgrau w/M Technic interior swap Millpoint Gray 1999 M Roadster Dakar Yellow II, Dinan Stage 3 software, high flow throttle body, and CAI 2001 Z3 3.0i Coupe Black Sapphire Metallic BMW CCA 369408 | | | 09-18-2016, 03:58 PM | #12 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 595 | My Gates tensioner came in. It has the torx head bolt as opposed to the 15mm hex head. I decided to tackle this today. As soon as I relieved the tensioner, it made a metallic chirp every time I swing it out. I believe the mechanical tensioner is the culprit. Since the tensioner sits in a cavity, its going to be difficult getting it out with the power steering pulley on. So the pulley has to come off. It has 3 x 13mm hex head cap screws. They have to be loosened while the belt is still on the tensioner. Wow, the metallic chirp is gone. It is so quiet now. __________________ 1996 Ti 280k miles and still going.... 1993 964 - holding on to this one 2001 Burban, 240k miles 2018 Suburban Z71 Last edited by bazar01; 07-10-2017 at 01:43 PM. | | | 09-18-2016, 06:03 PM | #13 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | Quote: Originally Posted by bazar01 My Gates tensioner came in. It has the torx head bolt as opposed to the 15mm hex head. | Interesting - the pictures on Rockauto.com show the hex head bolt. I took another look in the engine bay; it appears that the fasteners can be removed with the ps pulley in place, wasn't sure about the tensioner itself. Does the pulley on the Gates part accept the dust cover? | | | 09-18-2016, 09:30 PM | #14 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 595 | Quote: Originally Posted by paul somlo Interesting - the pictures on Rockauto.com show the hex head bolt. I took another look in the engine bay; it appears that the fasteners can be removed with the ps pulley in place, wasn't sure about the tensioner itself. Does the pulley on the Gates part accept the dust cover? | The fasteners can be removed with the power steering pulley in place. But the whole tensioner will not come out. The pulley on the Gates tensioner comes with the dust cover. __________________ 1996 Ti 280k miles and still going.... 1993 964 - holding on to this one 2001 Burban, 240k miles 2018 Suburban Z71 | | | 09-24-2016, 07:08 AM | #15 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Greeley CO Posts: 233 | The INA tensioner arrived today, installed it, no more chirp. It's marked "Slovakia" and has the torx head fastener holding the pulley. It doesn't come with a dust cover, and the original cover won't fit. Bazar - when you put the belt back on, did you just pull the pin on the tensioner, or did you use a t-50 bit to rotate ccw, then pull the pin? When I started researching this, I came across a bunch of threads with people complaining about stripped torx head screws - now I understand. The torx bit engagement is somewhat shallow. Combined with the fastener head being moved away from the plane of rotation of the tensioner, I can see what a pain in the ass removing the belt is going to be now. Before, I was using a 16mm socket with an 18" breaker bar and rotating the tensioner was easy. I tried using a 3/8" long handled flex head ratchet (as the t-50 bit is 3/8" drive), and I was barely able to get enough rotation to free the pin. I tried the 18" 1/2" drive breaker bar with an adapter, but that just makes the situation worse, as the bit slipped out of the torx fastener. And that's a sure fire way to strip it. Maybe the answer is a 3/8" breaker bar, to get closer to the torx head, with a pipe over the handle. Maybe I can manipulate the tensioner somehow with a long pry bar instead? I don't suppose that either of you would have an old tensioner laying around with the torx head fastener? I'm curious as to whether the old LH hex head bolt could replace the new torx head (which is also LH). Now I'm wishing that I had taken the impact wrench and removed the torx head, just to see what's what, but I wanted to get the car back on the road. | | | | | Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Posting Rules | You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |