Terrible Tram lining and rear end unsteadyness

[zen200]

Hi All,

I posted a link a while back about the handling probs I have with my ti. I have had it since Dec 09 and have always noticed that the rear end seems unstable and seems to make a sharp rocking sensations when I go over a pot hole etc.

Also, on some roads the car tramlines (pulls from side to side).

Now you peeps very kindly mentioned that rear probs were most probably due to worn rear subframes bushes or shocks or both, So I have had all of that done only to find that the rear issue still exists.

Only advice that I have had from Garage is to try a standard set of wheels as my car has 17" BMW 5 Series wheels on it and he says that BMW's suffer from wheel changes. (he was a bmw specialist also)

What do u guys think ? could the wheels be the cause of all of my problems... ?

Also is anyone near Dover Kent England that has standard wheels that I can try to see if it sort it out ?

Thanks in advance

Zen

[lysergicsurfer]

Rear subframe bushings are most common on our cars, and so it seems that your problem could be with your tire/wheels, or front components since you replaced your rear subframe bushing already. You can try switching your wheels, front to back, maybe side to side. See if that helps, you can pinpoint if a tire/wheel is bad. Make sure they all have the correct psi. Then there could be problems in the front that could cause these symptoms. LCABs, ball joints, and tie rods all make the steering/handling sloppy. Its all trial and error to address these problems. If you haven't replaced any suspension components yet, they make these cars new again. I hear that people say 17's will make the handling bad, but I couldn't see it making that bad of a problem. You say they are 5 series wheels? What width are they, I think wide tires will make a car tramline alot.

[spidertri]

Wide tires cause the tram lining.

Were the trailing arm bushings replaced in the rear?

[Maverix]

I thought tram lining was the cause of negative camber in the rear. Only way to help it is through a camber kit. I've tried switching back and forth between my 17's and stock 15" steelies. The tram lining slightly decreased when I would switch back to the 15's, but it was always there. So smaller wheel width might help a little, but it wont make it go away. Although the 17's had more stability and better traction than the 15's because of the wider width (duh!).

[chrisbec]

As far as the clunking noise goes, did you have a good look at your shock towers in the rear and did you replace those upper shock mount bushings also (those may fail).

Were the results of your wheel alignment report within spec? Can you post what your wheel alignment values are?

[lysergicsurfer]

Maverix, are your 17's wider that your 15's, rim or tire width? I think that the overall width of the tire contact patch makes much more tram-lining symptoms than the rim diameter itself. However riding on a larger rim does intensify suspension problems, so if there is a worn part or problem less rubber on the tire would make it much more noticeable. These cars came with what 195? 205 width? So running wider tires will make it ride and drive different. Although running on a larger rim makes it run stiffer, firmer, more connected feeling, if you run the stock tire width I am sure it would feel much more 'normal'. Though there may be a decrease in performance.( I wouldnt run 195/205)

[roadrash]

"Tramlining" at Wikipedia.

"Tramlining" at Tire Rack

"Tramlining" at Bimmerfest

EDIT - This article at Autospeed is referred to in the Bimmerfest link above.

It's really not that difficult to do your own research once in a while so that you know what you're talking about. (directed at nobody in particular).

[Maverix]

Originally Posted by lysergicsurfer

Maverix, are your 17's wider that your 15's, rim or tire width? I think that the overall width of the tire contact patch makes much more tram-lining symptoms than the rim diameter itself. However riding on a larger rim does intensify suspension problems, so if there is a worn part or problem less rubber on the tire would make it much more noticeable. These cars came with what 195? 205 width? So running wider tires will make it ride and drive different. Although running on a larger rim makes it run stiffer, firmer, more connected feeling, if you run the stock tire width I am sure it would feel much more 'normal'. Though there may be a decrease in performance.( I wouldnt run 195/205)

Yes, you are right. My 17's are 225 while my stock is 195. Width has a lot to do with it. Also keep in my, my car is lowered. I actually noticed something. My problem with tramlining started when I got the RD sport springs with the bilsteins shocks and struts. Though later, I upgraded to H&R race springs. When I compared both sets of springs side to side, I noticed that the rear springs were the same exact height. But of course the front H&R were smaller than the RD's. My tramlining was really bad with the RD's, but when I upgraded to H&R, it reduced by half. And when I switch to steelies, it's nearly unnoticeable.

[zen200]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Wide tires cause the tram lining.

Were the trailing arm bushings replaced in the rear?

Not sure if the trailing arm bushes are different to the rear subframe bushes ?

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...26tbs%3Disch:1

its the bush thats in the above link on the bottom of the picture that I had replaced.

I am going to try swapping postions of wheels over today and have a gpood look under the car today and will report further soon.

Thanks for all your help so far guys, its really nice to know there a still some nice people about

[spidertri]

Yes, the trailing arm bushings are different from the subframe bushings. There are 4 trailing arm bushings that sit between the subframe and trailing arms. Part #8 in the link below.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...99&hg=33&fg=30

[Junk]

I would check the rear shocks, I had one that was totally blown and believe that caused my rearend to feel wobbly over bumps.. easy to unbolt them..

[zen200]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Yes, the trailing arm bushings are different from the subframe bushings. There are 4 trailing arm bushings that sit between the subframe and trailing arms. Part #8 in the link below.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...99&hg=33&fg=30

I see... I didnt even realise they were there. Im all new to this side of things really.

I checked under car and found them, but cant tel if they are in good condition or not. Is it easy to change them ? or would you recommend getting a garage to do it ?

[chrisbec]

Easy to change? Not too difficult if you have time and a place to work, some tools and a little ingenuity. Pulling these bushings either requires that you buy the special BMW puller tool ($$$) or you can make your own (this is where the ingenuity comes in handy). This has been done a lot on the e30's which essentially has the same rear trailing arm suspension. Look online for 'how to' articles that show every step of the process since it will be essentially the same and then decide for yourself .

[L84THSKY]

I just put my summer tires (235/45/17) on yesterday, and put away my stock (205/60/15) stock wheels. I always get tramlining on the 17's , none to speak of on the 15's.