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Old 12-22-2012, 03:40 AM   #16
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That's a beefy CA... These are compatible?
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.2TI View Post
That's a beefy CA... These are compatible?
Nope.

They will give you excessive neg camber without any correction, the ends that go into the LCA bushing is hexagonal, so they need to be grind ed down to fit regular e36 LCA's or tree house racing has, or had at least, hexagonal bushings that will fit into the regular e36 lollipops, then it will fit, but I'm not sure if they push far enough up on the CA. The ones I put on where ground down to fit.

Pros:
They are aluminum and are 2lbish lighter (estimated with bathroom scale) regular non M e36 LCA at around 9lbs and the E46 ones at 7lbs. (The bathroom scale isnt the most accurate thing, so estimated!)
Give more width, and lock (?)
and thats about it.

Links for more info:
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/tech...ry-photos.html
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:43 AM   #18
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So some more info on the E46 LCA swap, below is a pic of of all the parts used with my E46 LCA swap.

Driver Side:



This is just my setup, so others can maybe find a better mix and match, depending on use.

Also the red two vertical red marks with the horizontal line shows how much I had to adjust the tie road to counter the toe in, from the stock setting! As you can see it had to go out far, and this is just for drivable toe. Its about the max, and NOT recommended, it still has too much toe in.

**Also its just off the top of my head but it seems that 99/00 e46 LCA are preferred, not sure why, not confirmed! But just saying anyways.

I have not gotten a actual alignment for final specs as i need to get longer inner tie rods. Once all is in place and I am happy with my self measured toe I will bring it to a shop to get numbers for you gentlemen

Close up on Passenger side of offset M Hat rotated for max positive camber. (Same idea as I had before when showing boss23 picture, it works!)





QUESTION:
Does anyone know what the difference of length is between e36 inners vs e46 and e90 ?

e90 inners seems too long, it needs to be cut down so toe won't be too far out, and e36 inners are not long enough to be safe, I don't know if the e46 length is somewhere in between.

Edit: When I ever get a chance I'll try to get all the info on one post - to keep the info easy to find.
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Last edited by anassa; 02-16-2013 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:46 PM   #19
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So I replaced the inner tierod ends and put 4mm of washers with some locktight on the end the tierod, now I have enough tie rod length to match the e46 control arms! I just did my own measuring with the toe so that it would be good enough for the road - I am roughly at 0 deg of toe, maybe a bit toe out. (So I am using regular e36 inner and outer tierods with "spacers" on the inside of the tie rod)

Drives fine so far!

Final alignment with camber,caster, and toe numbers will come eventually!
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:27 AM   #20
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You know... E30 M3 aluminum arms bolt right up.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
You know... E30 M3 aluminum arms bolt right up.
Really??



But I think those are pretty expensive(??), e46 ones are pretty easy/cheap to source.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anassa View Post
Really??



But I think those are pretty expensive(??), e46 ones are pretty easy/cheap to source.
Really.

E46 arms can be much cheaper but by the time you are done with everything else you need E30 M3 arms might be cheaper, much cheaper.
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
Really.

E46 arms can be much cheaper but by the time you are done with everything else you need E30 M3 arms might be cheaper, much cheaper.
i dunno, other then the initial buy of the e46 LCA, i bought LCA bushings, needed to go m3 sway bar and end links, other then that I don't think I needed anything else. Does the e30 m3 LCA's have a place for the sway bar on it or is the sway bar mounted on the strut? Also i actually have no idea how much they cost other then probably more =S
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anassa View Post
i dunno, other then the initial buy of the e46 LCA, i bought LCA bushings, needed to go m3 sway bar and end links, other then that I don't think I needed anything else. Does the e30 m3 LCA's have a place for the sway bar on it or is the sway bar mounted on the strut? Also i actually have no idea how much they cost other then probably more =S
But you still are not done correct? And you have track issues since you have widened the front track and done nothing with the rear.

Also... all E46 arms are not the same. E46 M3 have arms all their own and E46 non-M arms differ from non sport to sport.

The E30 M3 arms are not cheap at all. They list for 400.00 each but you can get them cheaper through me The E30 M3 arms do have a place to bolt the sway bar link bracket. That said bolting the sway bar to an aluminum control arm is not my favorite idea but I have seen it done before (on a race car) so I know it works.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
But you still are not done correct? And you have track issues since you have widened the front track and done nothing with the rear.

Also... all E46 arms are not the same. E46 M3 have arms all their own and E46 non-M arms differ from non sport to sport.

The E30 M3 arms are not cheap at all. They list for 400.00 each but you can get them cheaper through me The E30 M3 arms do have a place to bolt the sway bar link bracket. That said bolting the sway bar to an aluminum control arm is not my favorite idea but I have seen it done before (on a race car) so I know it works.
Ya I understand the e46 LCAs arn't all the same, I think it was specifically the 99/00 ones from the sport that worked well, but I'm just pulling that out of nowhere at this point, need to double check to confirm.

It does seem that using the e30m3 LCA's would be simpler, but i also do like using the sway bar that bolts to the strut, with it being more effective and also saves like - a couple lbs?

Your right that I am not done adjusting, I need to get a real alignment still, also I forgot to mention that the biggest problem is the excessive neg camber. I picked up the idea from the european drift forms that wanted extra lock and track with for their drifting, so it is out of place on a mostly stock, street driven ti (like mine!). And as for rear track width, spacers in the rear??

Untill now I picked up the LCAs and LCAbushing with new lolipop for 200, then the m3 sway bar and end links for 70, and I think 60? for the offset Mhats which were desperately needed to get into drivable camber. So 330 plus whatever it cost for the washers that I put in the inner tie rods to give me enough play for dialing in regular toe.

Mostly it was just experimenting to see if it could turn out actually useful.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anassa View Post
It does seem that using the e30m3 LCA's would be simpler, but i also do like using the sway bar that bolts to the strut, with it being more effective and also saves like - a couple lbs?
Where you mount the sway bar has nothing to do with the arms... unless you are using the E46 arms that do not have a provision for the sway bar link brackets. You just need to have the tab on the struts so you can attach the links.

M3 links are more than double the size of standard E36 links so you actually add weight with the M3 links. If you ran the thinner 23mm M3 front sway bar you would save some weight there but by using the stock ti bar with M3 links you are actually adding more front sway bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anassa View Post
Your right that I am not done adjusting, I need to get a real alignment still, also I forgot to mention that the biggest problem is the excessive neg camber. I picked up the idea from the european drift forms that wanted extra lock and track with for their drifting, so it is out of place on a mostly stock, street driven ti (like mine!). And as for rear track width, spacers in the rear??
Spacers in the rear would help to a degree but you will run into fender clearance issues at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anassa View Post
Untill now I picked up the LCAs and LCAbushing with new lolipop for 200, then the m3 sway bar and end links for 70, and I think 60? for the offset Mhats which were desperately needed to get into drivable camber. So 330 plus whatever it cost for the washers that I put in the inner tie rods to give me enough play for dialing in regular toe.
You are using mostly used parts correct? Pricing on quality new versions of what you are using will not be as affordable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anassa View Post
Mostly it was just experimenting to see if it could turn out actually useful.
I admire your ambition. I would have stopped after comparing an E46 arm to an E36 arm side by side. You have the right thinkingthough, lighter weight, wider track, more effective front sway bar, more negative camber... With a solution for the negative camber this might actually be a good alternative for a wide body car.
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
Where you mount the sway bar has nothing to do with the arms... unless you are using the E46 arms that do not have a provision for the sway bar link brackets. You just need to have the tab on the struts so you can attach the links.
Thats actually what it came down to, the e46 LCA i picked up had no place to use the stock sway bar, I was just lucky I happens to be usuing m3 struts up front that had the tab for the m3 sway bar, also reading that it was more effective, I just went ahead with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
M3 links are more than double the size of standard E36 links so you actually add weight with the M3 links. If you ran the thinner 23mm M3 front sway bar you would save some weight there but by using the stock ti bar with M3 links you are actually adding more front sway bar.
I have heard of running the ti bar with m3 links, but from one specific post i read it was a little too much. I also got 375lb springs up front with everything stock so i feel like its enough stiff. Though I do have a set of oem z3m front springs that i would like to replace the front with to get it a bit softer and then maybe I can play with the ti sway bar and m3 endlinks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
Spacers in the rear would help to a degree but you will run into fender clearance issues at some point.
I figure some more track with and a little less tire will save me some on tires (I know... horrible poor man mentality )

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
You are using mostly used parts correct? Pricing on quality new versions of what you are using will not be as affordable.
ya everything is second hand, sourced from people parting their cars, craigslist, ebay, forums etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
I admire your ambition. I would have stopped after comparing an E46 arm to an E36 arm side by side. You have the right thinkingthough, lighter weight, wider track, more effective front sway bar, more negative camber... With a solution for the negative camber this might actually be a good alternative for a wide body car.
I know the z3 6cyl rear control arms are a bit longer, so i was thinking it may match the extra track length up front from the e46lca, but at the same time it would add weight.. dunno, i'm making it up as I go lol.

Thanks for all the feedback up till now!
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:19 AM   #28
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Good thought with the Z3 non-M 6 cyl rear trailing arms... I had not thought of that. You will however still have to deal with the fenders.

These cars actually need more rear bar than front until you start getting very stiff with the suspension... then you can actually get rid of the rear bar all together (that saves some weight). Look at Dinan sway bar diameters. 27mm front and 22mm rear, stock sport front is 26 rear is 16 if I remember right. There is a reason.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBum View Post
Good thought with the Z3 non-M 6 cyl rear trailing arms... I had not thought of that. You will however still have to deal with the fenders.

These cars actually need more rear bar than front until you start getting very stiff with the suspension... then you can actually get rid of the rear bar all together (that saves some weight). Look at Dinan sway bar diameters. 27mm front and 22mm rear, stock sport front is 26 rear is 16 if I remember right. There is a reason.
I looked up the rear sway bar specs, I think the rear 16 is the sport and 323ti, z3m has 19, which I think would be perfect. My tires also help balance things are with 205's front and 225 rear.

As for the fenders, I have seen ppl use the e46 front fenders grafted on, but I was just thinking buying some simple flairs and putting them on - not any time soon of course - I'll probably keep to smaller tires/wheels untill I am happy with my suspenstion/brakes misc things and finally add more power then the wider tires and bigger wheels will come into play.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:38 PM   #30
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Ive installed e46 m3 front complete suspension on the ti. It widens the stance substantially. It requires e46 m3 outs, e90 inners, m3 lcabs or AKG bushings installed in the e36 lollipop, and whatever strut mount youre going to use, usually one with camber and caster adjustment. In the end, its not worth it. You can widen the stance in other ways, reduce weight with e30 m3 aluminum arms, and others.



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