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Old 12-10-2008, 02:45 PM  
xxxJohnBoyxxx
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gulfport, Florida
Posts: 3,208
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Default Air Pump Simulator for 2 Bank all 6 Cylinders

I have created a air pump simulator for all 6 cylinder BMW engines with 2 upstream O2 sensors. It is the same size as the M44 unit but controls both bank 1 & 2 for a 6 cylinder engine. I'm shipping one off today for testing and will post pictures and wiring diagrams when I get some time later...
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  #30  
By rkstar9 on 01-11-2012, 01:42 AM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAZ View Post
The 200mv signal is simulating a lean condition to the DME (computer) as reported by the O2 sensor. It is most likely the same for all cars.

Got it

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAZ View Post
E85 or E89?
E85 bmw z4 2.5 03 feb




Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAZ View Post
If an electrical schematic isn't available, you can just find the pre-cat 02 sensors in your car, then identify the wires leaving them by color. My personal preference is to locate the sim in the compartment with the DME to keep it out of the elements. To do that, you want to locate and cut the two O2 wires to the DME a few inches from the connector to the DME. Bring the existing secondary air pump wiring back into that compartment as well.

I was thinking of leaving the sim at the pump but that makes more sense.

since everything gets to the DME anyway.


EDIT I created a thread since I feel my setup is slightly different

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthrea...016#post318016
Last edited by rkstar9; 01-11-2012 at 09:46 PM..
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  #31  
By gpeterson on 07-31-2012, 03:46 PM
Default

I built some SAP sims for 6cyl cars but they can be used on the 4cyl as well.

They is very high quality, not so "home-built" looking like the DIY version out there.

-includes everything necessary for installation (wire ties, butt connectors)
-electronics sealed in epoxy for protection against moisture/vibration
-high-temperature, color-coded GXL wire cut to correct length and covered in wire loom
-individually tested

Includes zip ties, butt connectors, and detailed instructions. $95 shipped, please PM me.

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  #32  
By e36fiend on 09-15-2012, 12:45 AM
Default

I just built one with a DPDT relay as spec'd out by DaveAZ here and it works great! Took a couple hours to solder it all together, then maybe 1 hour to route wires and place inside the engine bay. Cost all together about $15.

Thanks xxxJohnBoyxxx and DaveAZ for the inspiration!
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  #33  
By John Firestone on 11-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Default

Take a gander at the datasheet. Like many with its form, the pins are numbered as if you might plug it into a 16 pin DIP socket – for the good reason that some do. BTW, that should be a good choice of relay for a car as its coil is rated to 180% of nominal voltage (12V x 1.8 = 21.6V) at 23 deg C.
Last edited by John Firestone; 11-18-2012 at 10:41 AM..
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  #34  
By John Firestone on 11-19-2012, 12:13 PM
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The connections look o.k., but if you have any doubts, I'd print out the layout and schematic and double check them against the datasheet, marking off each signal with a colored pencil as you go. Or by the correctness of the relay wiring, are there other things you are wondering about?
Last edited by John Firestone; 11-19-2012 at 01:46 PM..
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  #35  
By roos on 11-19-2012, 04:15 PM
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Is there anyway to make this simulator work on e46 03/2003-2005 sensors?



It has a 6 pin connector and 5 wires. (red, white, yellow, black, gray)


And the simulator, does it have to be exactly 200 mv or can it be +-2 mv?
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  #36  
By KPATX on 01-01-2013, 12:05 AM
Default o2 Signal wire on '96 328i color verification

I built a SAP sim according to this schematic http://www.318ti.org/forum/showpost....9&postcount=25 except that I wired the pot with the wiper arm (middle wire) as the 200 mV source. The pictorial/schematic did not make sense to me otherwise with the pot as a voltage divider.
According to my Haynes manual, the forward o2 sensor wire connectors plug into the wires to the dme along side the fuel rails. The wire colors are red, yellow, black, and white. Readings there with a Fluke 77 dvm referenced to the chassis ground nut by the SAP were unstable, so I used the ground side of the SAP connector. The yellow wire was the one that varied between 0-1v., gradually increasing as the engine warmed up, so I clipped both yellow wires and inserted the simulator there.
Can anyone with a '96 328i verify that this is the correct wire? I ask because after resetting CEL it came back a couple of times, though it didn't this morning. Wife left in it this morning and it was running fine but can't tell yet because we're still having problems with a P0340 CPS error and I can't check 'til she gets back.

No SAP code again this morning (1-1-13). So it was the YELLOW wire that was o2 signal FYI.
Last edited by KPATX; 01-01-2013 at 03:32 PM.. Reason: clarity
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  #37  
By xxxJohnBoyxxx on 01-02-2013, 06:31 PM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roos View Post
Is there anyway to make this simulator work on e46 03/2003-2005 sensors?



It has a 6 pin connector and 5 wires. (red, white, yellow, black, gray)


And the simulator, does it have to be exactly 200 mv or can it be +-2 mv?
The picture is a wideband O2 sensor. You can trick these too but need a 2.0volt simulator signal since wideband operates on a 0-5 volt range.

The narrowband O2 operates on a 0-1 volt range that is why 200mv is used to fool the DME.
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  #38  
By Ferrari M5 on 01-15-2013, 04:50 AM
Default

I hope this is a dumb question, but will this 2 bank setup work equally well on the M5? I have read through the post and it seems as though it would, but I didn't see anybody that has tried it yet.
Thanks, and thank you for posting this amazing "test" for troubleshooting the SAP system...
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  #39  
By Ferrari M5 on 03-29-2013, 04:28 AM
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I will answer my own question...yes it does! Just passed NYS inspection running this setup. Thanks so much, this was a lifesaver.
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  #40  
By JohnStern on 06-22-2013, 02:56 PM
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This SAS simulator looks perfect for my purposes. Trying to send the person building same for $95 but am new to this forum and not allowed to PM him yet.
I'm waiting
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  #41  
By gpeterson on 09-05-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnStern View Post
This SAS simulator looks perfect for my purposes. Trying to send the person building same for $95 but am new to this forum and not allowed to PM him yet.
I'm waiting
Just saw this... they are actually $70 now or $165 if you want one that plugs in to the O2 connectors instead of splicing.
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  #42  
By JohnStern on 09-07-2013, 03:11 PM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpeterson View Post
Just saw this... they are actually $70 now or $165 if you want one that plugs in to the O2 connectors instead of splicing.
Thanks for getting back to me. My SAS on my 2000 528iT is clogging with carbon due to a VF Engineering supercharger system which is causing the car to run way rich. I can clean the SAS tube in the head with a combination of Seafoam and Amsoil Power Foam which allows the SAS to work for up to 3 months depending on how much time I spend on the cleaning process. However it usually operates for just a couple of weeks.

I am currently trying to get a DME reflash (tune) from a 3rd party as this situation is making the car unreliable and I am sure the rich running will eventually destroy my CATs. The car has only 45K miles.

I really don't want to install a simulator as it will mask the symptoms that are making the car unreliable. I need to keep monitoring the rich running problem until that situation is resolved. If I get to the point where the tune has been done and the car is running well, I will reconsider installing your SAS simulator.

Thanks again.
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  #43  
By cbrf23 on 04-08-2015, 02:05 AM
Default Back from the dead?

First off I just want to say thanks to all of you for the great information on this subject!!! Immensely helpful. Very cool of you guys to take the time to share.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm trying to build one of these for a Land Rover Discovery and I just wanted to ask a few questions as I've literally never built a board like this before.

1) Can anyone check my design here and make sure it looks right?
2) What gauge wire are you guys using to connect to the O2 and to the DME?

**NOTE: I'm just going to be point-point soldering on a prototype board - I'm not having custom boards made or anything, just drew this to give myself a guide. I'm using NielM's part list with a DPDT relay and single potentiometer.

I have experience soldering electronics (repairs and modifications) and I'm comfortable with that, I've just never done anything quite like this and wanted to make sure I'm interpreting the component documentation correctly and understanding the circuit fully. Fun learning experience so far!

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  #44  
By xxxJohnBoyxxx on 04-08-2015, 09:16 PM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrf23 View Post
First off I just want to say thanks to all of you for the great information on this subject!!! Immensely helpful. Very cool of you guys to take the time to share.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm trying to build one of these for a Land Rover Discovery and I just wanted to ask a few questions as I've literally never built a board like this before.

1) Can anyone check my design here and make sure it looks right?
2) What gauge wire are you guys using to connect to the O2 and to the DME?

**NOTE: I'm just going to be point-point soldering on a prototype board - I'm not having custom boards made or anything, just drew this to give myself a guide. I'm using NielM's part list with a DPDT relay and single potentiometer.

I have experience soldering electronics (repairs and modifications) and I'm comfortable with that, I've just never done anything quite like this and wanted to make sure I'm interpreting the component documentation correctly and understanding the circuit fully. Fun learning experience so far!

Ok I soent about 1.5 hours looking at your schematicand it looks good. The SAP simulator is super simple. When the DME calls for SAP the simulator turns on cutting the voltage from the O2's and sends a false signal to fool the DME into thinking the exhaust is lean which it should be if the SAP is working correctly, When DME turns off SAP then the simulators' off state is only connecting the O2 signal line back together so the DME gets normal O2 readings.

This will work on almost any car it is installed on. Project board from ratshack and you can get everything for under $15, used to be $12 and change but prices have increases over the years.

Best of luck with your project, John Smith
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