Speeding Ticket #3...Am I Screwed Now?

[1996 328ti]

Points may not transfer but insurance companies do find out.
Sh!t, I'm driving +75 every morning into Greenville.
I better change my ways.

But 3 tickets is bad on insurance. You may end up in a risk pool if they have such a thing in NC.

[Den]

Originally Posted by larryn

You may want to contact an attorney. With this one being a whopper and adding the charge of Reckless driving, it could easily show the court the court that you haven't learned any lessons from previous tickets/fines.. . .

+1

Reckless driving is a serious charge. It will definitely F your insurance and maybe job applications too. Your driving record makes you look like a 'habitual offender.' It wouldn't hurt your case to have professional representation, but it'll probably cost ~$500. Ask people you know in the area for a referral to a good attorney. He probably can't get you off, but he will probably have more luck getting it reduced than you would alone because he knows how to work the system, and it's more effective to have someone speak in court for you than to try to do it yourself when you are busy ****ting your pants. It's also less stressful.

Also, there may be some angles to be worked. Since the cop was not running a standard speed trap, he may not have had his sh!t together. Maybe radar works when it's moving, but maybe it's not as accurate as when stationary. . .and there's always the radar calibration issue that's been mentioned.

Did he pace you or use radar? If he paced you, when was the last time his car's speedo had been calibrated? Did he follow you for 1/4 mile or whatever the requirement is in SC? A good attorney will know all the questions to ask and which arguments will fly in court.

OTOH, maybe the cop will work with you, and you could get roughly the same deal an attorney would get you without spending $500, but don't wait until your court date to find out. I would talk to him soon so you still have time to get an attorney if the cop is just jerking you around. Some cops are a-holes; some are not. Don't wait until it's too late to find out about this guy.

[larryn]

I've also heard that asking for the radar calibration logs when defending yourself (sans council) is largely viewed as being a punk. Having an Attorney do this for you is viewed as covering all bases.

[Den]

Exactly. A judge doesn't want to hear an argument from you, especially if you are a kid. . . er young man.
It's like arguing with your dad. He just can't accept it from you, but if one of his buddies says the exact same thing, he's like,"Hmm. . .interesting point." An attorney is basically his peer, so the judge doesn't have to stretch his ego as far to take a suggestion from him.


Oh yeah, did the cop give you the ol' "Do you know why I pulled you over? Do you know how fast you were going?"

If you said someting like,"Yeah, I was doin' 80mph," you have already admitted guilt. That's why they ask you those questions. Saying you thought you were in a 70mph zone just shows that you were unaware of your surroundings(didn't know posted speed limit.) So yeah, talk to the cop. If you are lucky, he will drop the reckless charge and give you something like 74 in a 55 zone. Make sure you understand the deal he's giving you. If there's a prosecutor involved, the cop will probably do a sit-down with them in the morning just before court. Try to keep yourself in the loop. You don't want to end up standing in front of the judge solo with no deal becasue of a SNAFU.

[dynamic]

Originally Posted by bullmand

I don't have personal experience with this but I've read that you can contest the ticket if he used a radar gun by asking for the calibration records of the gun the cop that stopped you was using. It probably varies from state to state, but if that gun was overdue for its calibration you might be able to at least get the speed reduced.

Thats part of it...

First... do not trust the cop... do not plead guilty... he will not help you. It is your right to have a trial. He may be saying that because he knows he did something shady and just wants you to plead guilty...

Second.. an attorney would be suggested, if you have the funds, a retainer for a decent attorney is at least $1k for a case like this. If he is decent though he should have an initial consult fee you can pay just to talk to him about the case for an hour... this could be invaluable. Also depending on where you are some smaller towns have old boy networks so your defense attorney may know Joe prosecutor (who is the one who can really help you, not the police man) and may be able to just get you a deal because they went to school together.

Third.. read this site thoroughly and take notes: http://www.blurofinsanity.com/Speeding.html

I have gotten myself and many friends out of speeding tickets using the methods mentioned.

"asking for the radar calibration logs when defending yourself (sans council) is largely viewed as being a punk" is mis-leading... it is your right as a citizen of the United States to see all evidence that will be presented against you in a case, its called the discovery process and is all that an attorney would do for you. It has been my experience that if you ask in person (sans council) they do not take you as seriously and so it is more likely you are not provided all the necessary information in a timely manor and can ask for a mistrial. If its an attorney asking for it then they are going to get him the information asap.

[3DGE]

Sounds like my case a year ago, hire a lawyer and or do the testing to get it reduced, this should cost you around 300+ cost me around 1200

[Den]

Originally Posted by dynamic

"asking for the radar calibration logs when defending yourself (sans council) is largely viewed as being a punk" is mis-leading... it is your right as a citizen of the United States to see all evidence that will be presented against you in a case, its called the discovery process and is all that an attorney would do for you. It has been my experience that if you ask in person (sans council) they do not take you as seriously and so it is more likely you are not provided all the necessary information in a timely manor and can ask for a mistrial. If its an attorney asking for it then they are going to get him the information asap.

Nobody said he does not have the right to do this, just that it looks better if your attorney does it for you. . .just like you look better if you wear a tie to court, even though it's your right to wear shorts and a t-shirt. Bottom line = you want the judge to like you. Your best shot at this is to wear a tie(suit if you want, a bit excessive though, IMO) and let your attorney do all the talking. Aside from the fact that you're an amateur who is likely to be perceived by the judge as wasting his time, it just looks better to have someone other than the person who may be guilty argue the case.

[dynamic]

I would say it could go either way, for my reckless I was specifically told it was just as well I did not hire representation and did the leg work myself as it appeared I was more genuinely interested in the consequences of what I had done.

Also regarding discovery, you want them to ignore you and think you are an amateur, if they dont give you the information you need to defend yourself before the court date you could walk in dressed like Jimmy Buffet and they will have to acquit you.

[Den]

I see. Sure, do all the leg work and pester the clerks for records ahead of time all you want. I thought you were talking about demanding in court that the cop produce the records, as indicated on the web page you posted. If you are able to get something ahead of time that will get your case dismissed, then rock on with your bad self, but if not, I really don't recommend going into court and acting like an attorney, raising objections, etc. You have a good chance of just annoying the judge. That stuff plays way better in court when an attorney does it.

http://www.blurofinsanity.com/Speeding.html

BEFORE an officer can use the radar/laser reading as evidence, he has to establish a few things Jurisdiction Certification, up to date, accurate, traffic and engineering survey, radar/laser properly calibrated, tuning forks calibrated (with radar), FCC license, radar/laser unit appears on that FCC license

If the officer attempts to use the radar reading before establishing those things above, politely interrupt and say "objection your honor, inadmissible evidence."

Then tell the judge why. If the officer fails to prove your guilt at the end of his testimony don't question him, move to have the case dismissed. And explain what he failed to prove.

ASK questions like: what color clothes was I wearing? did I have any passengers?

Originally Posted by dynamic

. . .if they dont give you the information you need to defend yourself before the court date you could walk in dressed like Jimmy Buffet and they will have to acquit you.

AFAIK, the judge doesn't really have to do anything. He can make any ruling he wants to, and all you can do about it is appeal the case after he's done. If you have to appeal, then you definitely want an attorney, and they charge ~double to represent you in an appeal. So again, unless you have something that you know is going to get your case dismissed, I suggest showing up with a good attorney the first time. I would go ahead and talk to a few, then do your records leg work if you want, then if you have nothing, hire the attorney.

Maybe the attorney can work a deal with the prosecutor, maybe not. The prosecutor probably won't talk to you. . .probably won't even be assigned the case until a few days before the trial date. There's probably no harm in talking to the cop, as long as you don't say anything incriminating like "Yeah, I was doin' 80," but Dynamic is correct in saying that the prosecutor is the one who has the final say on deals, that's why I said to "stay in the loop." (Actually, the judge has the final say on deals. As a courtesy, he is supposed to accept it from the prosecutor, just as the prosecutor is supposed to accept it from the cop. . .but a cop's deal is more likely to get bounced by a cranky prosecutor than a prosecutor's deal is to be rejected by a judge.

[DustenT]

Advice:

1.) Go to court and ask them to lower the penalty.
2.) Wear a suit, not a baller suit, a nice conservative suit, blue or black with a white shirt, simple solid color tie.
3.) Don't ever tell anyone you weren't paying attention, or looking for directions to Starbucks.
4.) Don't mention BMW, especially if you are young. The judge knows you have one, it's on the ticket.
5.) Be overly polite, "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" work well.
6.) If you can't win this on your own (likely) get a lawyer. After 3 speeding tickets you are a cronic offender and will likely get the book thrown at you to teach you what's up.
7.) Sign up for defensive driving or some kind of driving class to show that you are making an effort to change.
8.) List you car for sale. You don't have to sell it, but it shows the judge that you are aware of what happened and you are making an effort to change you ways. Bring the for sale add into court. Your lawyer can help with that.

I didn't read all the posts, so sorry if this these points have been covered.

Oh yeah
9.) Spend the $400 and get a damn V1. And slow down.

[ATF]

I'm kind of curious, will SC know about his other two tickets in NC?

[Den]

Originally Posted by ATF

I'm kind of curious, will SC know about his other two tickets in NC?

Originally Posted by robcarync

. . .this ticket is in Greenville SC where I am living for the summer, the other two were in NC.

I think he's from NC. His driving record will be from NC DMV.
The question would be whether or not NC DMV will find out about the SC ticket. . .the magic 8-ball says,"Yes."

http://www.answers.com/topic/driver-license-compact
Driver License Compact (DLC) is an interstate compact used by States of the United States to exchange information concerning license suspensions and traffic violations of non-residents and forward them to the state where they are licensed known as the home state.

All states are members except for Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, Tennessee(dropped out in 1997) and Massachusetts.

Originally Posted by DustenT

9.) Spend the $400 and get a damn V1. And slow down.

Originally Posted by robcarync

I had just bought a radar detector too...it has been useful for the most part, but I can't expect it to help me when I come up behind a cop going 31 over.

[robcarync]

i did some research about what is up and contacted a SC attorney for clarification.

i did NOT get charged with reckless driving....it is just that reckless driving and speeding 25+ over have the same point penalty. unless the ticket spefically says reckless driving on it, it is just for speeding.

SC will just go for a conviction, then hand it over to NC DMV,where i get points based on NC rules. My infraction is SIX points in SC, but only THREE in NC. So worst case is i just get 3 points on my license, a fine, and the resulting insurance.

my parents are dropping from their insurance policy and im going to be taking out/paying for my own ...so really no reduction in ticket will save my current policy.

a guy from work reccomended contacting the officer before the court date to discuss what he can do to help (worked for him). he said that for the most part the cops around here will help you out if they say they will...but to make sure you contact him before the court date to be prepared and have an idea of what to expect.

im not sure if a lawyer is really worth it now since im not charged with reckless, and my ticket is only 3 points instead of 6. my insurance is going to be screwed no matter what (even without points, insurance finds out about tickets) and i will have to take out a new polciy by myself and not on my parents policy. the only thing it could possibly do is reduce the fine, which i will probably make up by paying the lawyer.


either way, as for slowing down, i have drastically. my first two tickets i got off easy (only for 9 over) and as a result i didnt learn from it or take them seriously. this ticket is a definite kick me in the ass type of wake up call to quit driving fast and stupidly. ive felt horrible ever since just thinking about how bad i screwed up this time. and i do NOT want that feeling anymore.

[Den]

Originally Posted by robcarync

Last night I got a ticket for 86 in a 55. 31 over. Reckless driving.

Originally Posted by robcarync

i did NOT get charged with reckless driving....it is just that reckless driving and speeding 25+ over have the same point penalty. unless the ticket spefically says reckless driving on it, it is just for speeding.

Make up your mind.

Seriously, that is good news.

Originally Posted by robcarync

SC will just go for a conviction, then hand it over to NC DMV,where i get points based on NC rules. My infraction is SIX points in SC, but only THREE in NC. So worst case is i just get 3 points on my license, a fine, and the resulting insurance.

Originally Posted by DustenT

Advice:
7.) Sign up for defensive driving or some kind of driving class to show that you are making an effort to change.

Yeah, you should look into this pronto. Usually, the class is offered on an all-day-Saturday basis, so you can finish it in one day, but you need to be able to schedule a class before your court date.

It will help you in court if you have a certificate showing that you recently completed a class, and in many states, DMV will take a few points off your record for completing the class. Your problem is that you are in SC, and you need a class that's approved by the NC DMV. Your best bet is probably to travel home one weekend and take the class in NC on one Saturday. It will probably impress the SC judge just as much as a class in SC would. The important thing for court is to complete the class before you go to court. Showing up with a certificate showing that you did it works a lot bettter than saying,"I plan to do it. . .uh, sometime."

http://www.dmv.org/nc-north-carolina...ng-schools.php

Originally Posted by robcarync

a guy from work reccomended contacting the officer before the court date to discuss what he can do to help (worked for him). he said that for the most part the cops around here will help you out if they say they will...but to make sure you contact him before the court date to be prepared and have an idea of what to expect.

Yeah, I would go ahead and talk ot the cop. Like I said, some are a-holes, and some are not. He might help you. It's probably not worth the $$$ for an attorney just to get the points reduced. If you had the reckless charge, you would need to do whatever you could to try to get rid of it, but a few less points probably isn't worth the $, and you can probably get the point reduction on your own anyhow. You might not be able to get it reduced to 9mph over, but you can probably get 19mph over. 10-19mph over is not such a bad charge.

You or an attorney can always try to play an angle with the radar mojo, but the bottom line = you blew by a cop. All the cop has to tell the judge is that he was cruising down the highway @60 mph, and you passed him. You would have a tough time explaining how you passed him without speeding at all. The best you could hope for would probably be 1-9mph over.

[pdxmotorhead]

Oregon just upped the anty a month or two ago,

Over 100 is now a felony reckless endangerment
ticket with a mandatory jail visit. Fine is about 1800
and an automatic 120 day suspension of drivers license.

Fun eh?

You should also remember that traffic court isn't regular court in most states, the judge often has the ability to do anything within reason,
vehicle laws are codes usually not real laws, so the enforcement and consequences vary...

Dave