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Old 02-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #1
Airric13
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Question 92 Civic trade for 98ti?

I have a 1992 Honda Civic with all the details at this website: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2584850 I am tired of a stiff suspension and want something mroe comfortable to drive to and from school and work in. I have an offer right now for a 1998 318ti, black with black leather interior, 17" wheels (don't know what kind), 115k miles, automatic (not ideal, i Know). The car recently had the window regulators replaced and the owner is only the second owner of the car. Bad news, headliner is falling down, I have replaced them before its not a big deal. The catalytic converter is clogged (he had the code read at a BMW dealer). BMW cats are WAY expensive, but it's just exhaust work. I could it cut out and a new one welded in at any muffler shop or with buddies who have a welder. My car has rust in the rear quarters, flat balck passenger door and driver fender, and some fading paint. But it runs neck in neck with an S2000 on the highway while getting 30-36mpg. Mine also needs a new header because it has rusted through just before the cat. The trade would be straight up, no extra cash on either side. What do you guys think?
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:45 PM   #2
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I'd say jump on it if it's been well maintained. The fact that it has a bad cat @ 115k would lead me to believe otherwise though. As I'm sure you've found out, OEM BMW cats are pretty pricey. I will say however, it's the only route to go. Especially on the newer OBD2 models. Aftermarket cats generally don't work and fail prematurely. When I say prematurely, I don't mean 50k miles down the road, I mean within a month or two from what I've seen and heard. I'm sure there's a couple aftermarket brands that might work, but from what I've seen, it's hit and miss. I've seen $300+ cats fail just as quickly as a $75 cheapo. Your best bet is to search the forum classified sections for a used OEM cat since junkyards cannot legally sell used cats. You might also try bimmerforums.com's classified section as well. To make things easier, you could use a cat off of any '96+ 318ti, 318 coupe, sedan, vert or Z3 1.9L. You might also want to read the fault codes as it may be something as simple as an o2 sensor. If it says "catalyst inefficiency", it's more than likely the cat though. Best of luck, the 318ti is a great car!
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:22 PM   #3
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the fact that it's an auto would be a deal breaker for me. i'd keep the hatch.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:16 PM   #4
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having both window regulators replaced is definitely good, since they always fail at one point or another, the headliners another common problem and 98 ti's especially had problems with the cat's failing, they had a recall on them but that's been over for a while unfortunately, they are great cars though, and other than two plastic cooling fittings, very reliable

welcome by the way
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:25 PM   #5
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Thank you for all the information yuo provided. Unless BMWs have something that separates them from all other cars, I have a hard time understanding that an aftermarket cat would fail prematurely. All exhaust systems post-carburetor days are basically the same setup. If the o2 sensors are working properly, and the cat works, it should not fail anytime soon. The only thing running through it is air and fuel no matter what car you drive. I know as far as Hondas and Toyotas go, you can put virtually any cat in there so long as it fits, and it will do the job. If there is something I am overlooking though, please let me know. But based on my experience, all exhausts are pretty much the same.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:27 PM   #6
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I also want to note for this forum that I only have 2 years left in school and drive les than 8000 miles per year, so relaistically i will at MOST be putting another 16000 miles on this car before getting a different one. I just think the resale value on this car would be better than my Honda because the Honda appeals to a more specific consumer market than the BMW.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airric13 View Post
Thank you for all the information yuo provided. Unless BMWs have something that separates them from all other cars, I have a hard time understanding that an aftermarket cat would fail prematurely. All exhaust systems post-carburetor days are basically the same setup. If the o2 sensors are working properly, and the cat works, it should not fail anytime soon. The only thing running through it is air and fuel no matter what car you drive. I know as far as Hondas and Toyotas go, you can put virtually any cat in there so long as it fits, and it will do the job. If there is something I am overlooking though, please let me know. But based on my experience, all exhausts are pretty much the same.
Do it then. When it fails, you'll know why That is, IF you end up getting the car. And FWIW, it's not a Honda or Toyota.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:06 PM   #8
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Hey I'm in Cincy too. You'll be better off with either some really good all seasons or snow tires for next winter with the Ti being RWD. If you go to UC and have to negotiate the hills, snows are really best. There is a thread on bf.c about cincy repair shops but these cars are pretty easy to work on. If you ever come by Mariemont I'll make a copy of my Bently manual on CD for you. Join the local BMWCCA and you get 20% off parts at the BMW store too.

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Old 02-26-2009, 05:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljess76 View Post
Do it then. When it fails, you'll know why That is, IF you end up getting the car. And FWIW, it's not a Honda or Toyota.
And FWIW my cat failed at 100k. Jess was my savior on that one.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:10 PM   #10
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I've been reading forums for about the last hour, and apparently there is something mysterious about BMWs lol. Sounds like everyone who has ever tried to put on an aftermarket cat had no luck whatsoever, and they continued to throw CELs and have problems until they used a direct-fit cat. It also sounds like everyone who replaces the cat replaces the 02 sensors also. So if I'm not mistaken, the whole project can be done for no less than about $400. So basically, since I know my car will run and all it needs is a new header ($150) unless I get about $250 and the BMw, the trade is not really worth it. My Civic could use some body work, but it will still run no matter what. The BMW sounds like it will give me more trouble than the Civic. Any new opinoins?
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airric13 View Post
I also want to note for this forum that I only have 2 years left in school and drive les than 8000 miles per year, so relaistically i will at MOST be putting another 16000 miles on this car before getting a different one. I just think the resale value on this car would be better than my Honda because the Honda appeals to a more specific consumer market than the BMW.
Statistically, the 318ti has held it's value more than any other 3 series Bimmer of it's era. That being said, they typically sell for more than KBB. The one that you're looking at is a '98 and the mileage is not that high, so you should be able to get a decent amount for it when the time comes. Provided you take good care of it and don't velcro a bunch of ebay garbage on it.

One thing I will disagree with you on though is the comment you made about the Honda being more appealing to a specific consumer market. I beg to differ. Most BMW enthusiast don't give the 318ti the same respect as the average e36 coupe, sedan or vert. For a long time, the 318ti was looked down upon by the typical BMW elitists as being an "entry level" economy car. It wasn't until recently that people have opened up to them and have finally taken a liking to them now that they know how scarce they are in comparison.

For every hundred e36 coupe, sedans and verts you see, you'll be lucky to spot one Ti. The chances of it being a sport(meaning it has the Mtechnik or "///M" package) is about 50%. The chances of it being a manual, 50%. The chances of it being a sport with a manual even slimmer.

True 318ti enthusiasts search far and wide for the right one. I guess you could say that the 318ti has developed a "cult car" reputation like the BMW e30's and VW Corrado's. The things that set the 318ti apart from the Honda, Toyota and VW compact crowd are it's timeless European styling, superior German engineering designed with the driver in mind, RWD, performance/handling, and the fact that it's a Bimmer.

I've owned 3 of them. I've went as far as Michigan to pick up my baby and now that I've made it the way I want it, I wouldn't trade it for anything. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it sucks that the one you're looking at is an automatic. I bet once you take it out on the road and possibly do a few mods to it, you'll fall in love with it and either do a manual conversion or trade it for one with a manual
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:10 PM   #12
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cooljess76,

I must admit, this forum is much more sophisticated and welcoming than any Honda, Acura, or Toyota forum I have been a part of. I appreciate the rundown on the history and cult following of the car. I knew I had rarely seen one, but I'm not out there looking at BMWs either.

Let's say you were in my shoes, cooljess76, would you keep the Honda which you know will last you as long as you need, all you have to do is replace the header for $150 or less, or would you trade for the BMW, spend the $400 to repair it properly and then sell it?

I will most likely end up putting it right up for sale once fixed, because I really want a fully stock 96-00 Civic. I want a car that I can fit people in and still achieve 35+mpg. I don't need my car to be fast or sporty, I just want to like the look and I need about $4000 to buy one with decent miles. I think the most I will get out of my civic is $4000, but I might be able to fix the BMW and sell it for close to $5000? If I don't get at least $4000 + whatever I would pay to fix the cat, then I might as well keep the Civic until it sells. The civic has cheaper insurance, better gas mileage, and now I realize, a broader market to sell to. but the BMW has a more "cult car" following as you put it, so it might be able to sell for more.

You've been giving me some great advice so far and I really appreciate your help. So once again I would enjoy hearing your opinion.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airric13 View Post
I've been reading forums for about the last hour, and apparently there is something mysterious about BMWs lol. Sounds like everyone who has ever tried to put on an aftermarket cat had no luck whatsoever, and they continued to throw CELs and have problems until they used a direct-fit cat. It also sounds like everyone who replaces the cat replaces the 02 sensors also. So if I'm not mistaken, the whole project can be done for no less than about $400. So basically, since I know my car will run and all it needs is a new header ($150) unless I get about $250 and the BMw, the trade is not really worth it. My Civic could use some body work, but it will still run no matter what. The BMW sounds like it will give me more trouble than the Civic. Any new opinoins?
You could always search the forums for '96+ 318i, 318is, 318ci, 318ti and 1.9L Z3 part-out threads for a used cat. Sometimes you can get lucky and pick one up for cheap. I've even thought about the possibility of cutting an OEM cat off of another model BMW and welding it into the system. That should work, as long as it's an OEM BMW cat. Check this forums classified section out for part-out threads as well as bimmerforums.com. When you search on bimmerforums, search in both the engine/performance section as well as the whole parts cars section.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:32 PM   #14
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A properly maintained/tuned 318ti will give you 35+ MPG. As for fitting passengers, I'll admit that the back seat on the 318ti is a little cramped, but carrying passengers isn't out of the question. The seats do fold down however which opens up an enormous amount of cargo room. I've transported a 318ti hood in my cargo area with the hatch completely closed and latched! I'm sure if you looked, you could find a used cat on the forums like I mentioned, or worst case scenario you could weld in an OEM BMW cat. Shouldn't cost much more than the $150 header, but of course there's no guarantee that you'll be as lucky as myself and some of the other people who've bought and sold used cats. Since it sounds like you want to get into a newer stock Civic than your current one, you're probably better off trying to sell your old one, saving up a couple bucks and buying the newer one. If you were interested in the 318ti and planned on keeping it, I'd say go for it, but you'd surely want to do a manual swap or trade it for one that's already a 5 speed. The fact that it's RWD gives the 318ti a completely different feel than the Civic, but if you're not after performance and handling, stick with the Civic.
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:23 PM   #15
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I used to have a 1990 CRX, and i loved that car, but looking back on the way it drove compared to my ti ... the honda was a total ****-box. I did an LS motor swap, and lowered it with good springs and new shocks, and it was still a P.O.S. compared to the ti (i felt like i was driving a go cart), and my ti has almost 200k miles on it.

Keep in mind from a performance standpoint too, that honda's have "floating cylinders" that arent connected to the block at the top, and under heavyload (being johnny redline), can flex enough to blow a headgasket. Theres a workaround for it, but it was still a poor design.
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