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Old 11-25-2009, 07:08 AM   #16
pdxmotorhead
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The guy who did the mustang took about 3 hours.

We had already removed the asphalt. Hired 2 guys off the local street corner hiring point to scrape it....

Dave
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:42 PM   #17
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your thread is about to inspire me to go get this shell for sale local just for a rainy day or a slow long drawn out project. problem i don't think there are many places to drive a car built for that. but i also haven't looked yet either. but here is always auto x and drift events here local all the time
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:56 PM   #18
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Rallycross is also getting quite popular.

Rally America is the rally sponsor.

SCCA does Autocross, but usually the folks in your
local chapter kow who the Rallycross guys are.

Dave
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead View Post
Rallycross is also getting quite popular.

Rally America is the rally sponsor.

SCCA does Autocross, but usually the folks in your
local chapter kow who the Rallycross guys are.

Dave
yeah i am going to post on a local forum tonight on this topic because it does look like alot of fun. and i did a season of auto x in my civic. a while back and ever since then i have been wanting to get back into something even if i don't win a single race it is all fun and that is all that matters.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead View Post
Rallycross is also getting quite popular.

Rally America is the rally sponsor.

SCCA does Autocross, but usually the folks in your
local chapter kow who the Rallycross guys are.
Not sure what its like in other regions, but here's the rundown of places you can play with a rally car in the Colorado area:

Rally Cross run by SCCA, basically auto-x on dirt.
Stage Rally run by NASA, Rally America, USRC, gravel and tarmac events.
Hillclimbs run by Colorado Hill Climb Assn, all gravel.
Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, mixed surfaces.
HPDE, Time Trials, Time Attack run by various groups, paved tracks.*
Drifting events run by various groups, paved surfaces.

So, IMO, lots of places where you can get good use out of a car. Honestly, in my mind, rally cars are built to withstand violent crashes into immovable objects without the comfort of tire walls. If you decide to go the rally route, make sure that you have someone with rally cage experience. I've seen several guys get road race style cages built only to find out that they're not rally legal. www.specialstage.com is a great resource for build info for rally cars.

*Rally cages are good enough to get you out on the track, but probably not with true door-to-door racing, as road race cages typically have even more side door reinforcement than a rally car. I have been OK'd to use my Evo (FIA rally cage) in Club Trials (SCCA's version).

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:34 PM   #21
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The current SCCA requirements for side impact bars, are not met by the standard V bar in a rally car.

Rallycross does not have as strict of rules because its in open fields and such where your not likely to hit trees, rocks, or much else... Best place to learn to drive on dirt before you dive off into the open road events.

Rally cages are gusseted into the chassis, most classes of road race do not allow this so the cars are not really dual purpose except in very narrow classes, where the rally car would not compete well.

Dave
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:30 AM   #22
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Nope

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Originally Posted by DaveKern View Post
Is that a PNW based car?

Dave
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:26 AM   #23
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Got the motor & transmission pulled today. Managed to pull everything as a unit, still attached to the sufframe and suspension.



Empty engine bay. I'll be back on Friday to continue stripping the car down.



Dave

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Old 11-26-2009, 07:22 AM   #24
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Good progress Dave!keep it up.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:20 PM   #25
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Looking good man. Can't wait for more pictures.
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:12 PM   #26
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I agree with Dave, don't acid dip it. If you were building a high end road racing car that would be garage stored for most of it's life when not on a pavement track, I could see doing it, but it wouldn't be worth it for a car that will see what a rally car will.

I think snap-on sells an air tool that is intended to remove the sealant on the bottom of the car. This same tool can be used to remove all of the seam sealer so that you can weld up all of the seams on the car.

You would, also, probably be better of buying a suspension from one of the US manufacturers instead of trying to get a kit that is primarly used over in Europe. AST, JRZ, GroundControl, TCKline(koni), Moton, etc.. can all be found from very good retailers here in the US. On a budget and limited to no external resevoirs, I would go with the TcKline DA setup. You'll want to talk with them about ride heights and see about getting something different from their off the shelf solution as I think those coilovers would be to low for a good rally car. If cost is not as big of an object I would look at the AST offerings, or step up to the JRZ/Moton class of dampers.

I've got some older posts on here from when I started my HPDE project car. I've done all of the lightening stuff you're going through now, as well as my suspension has been completely redone with the TcKline setup. The car is great on solid surfaces, but probably a little to stiff and low to do any rally's with.

There is a rally school here in Florida that I've been thinking about doing a three day program with. I've got decent experience on roads, but I think the extra car control needed to drive fast in the dirt would be an awesome skill to add. The wife would also want to be my navigator.. hehe..

I've also thought about getting a trophy-lite kind of truck to do some point to point style events with. However, since I currently for 2-4 track days per month, I would have to seriously re-consider my driving time to be able to afford maintaining another dedicated track vehicle..
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:41 PM   #27
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I wish there were better options for suspension state side, but the primary problem with road racing style suspension is that its just too fragile for rallying. A good example of this would be to look at Ohlin's offerings for the Mitsubishi Evo. The road race stuff is tiny compared to the heavy duty stuff, the TTX/TPX combo.

Budget for the suspension would be a nonadjustable kit from JVL, a guy in the PNW who puts together kits based on Bilstein 45 or 55mm shocks. Prices are usually about $2000 for a set.

High end for this build would be the Proflex dampers that are used on some of the CM3C cars that see gravel. These retail for ~4900 euros at the moment. These are my first choice, but I'm not sure I'll be able to dig up the coin to make these happen.

Rally suspension is a funny thing IMO. Until I got to ride in a car with proper gravel dampers, I was wondering WTF people were spending $5k+ on suspension. After my ride-along, I understood. Its flat out amazing what you can do to a car with this type of suspension. Crazy off angle jump 5 feet off the ground...no problem. Try that on regular dampers and you'll blow them out on the landing.

Couple videos of my Evo doing work:

Towards the end of this one, we're doing ~120mph catching pretty good air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzanQzyX4xk

About 2/3rds of the way thru this one, we go pas a dump truck, and the road just after that is enough to shake apart our truck, but motoring over it with the rally suspension, my wife remarked "that suspension really proved its $$ worth today."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNJU_lJqd40

BTW, I do have a buddy who works at RRT, so I will certainly be asking about the AST stuff before I pull the trigger on something. The key for rallying is to get rid of that inboard spring in the rear suspension and convert it to a full coilover setup.

Dave
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:35 PM   #28
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I definitely agree that the road racing stuff wouldn't work. My car would be broken pretty quickly trying to go over any kind of dirt or rocks at a moderate speed..

I know JRZ also makes a rally damper. I would just mentioning going through somebody local so that you have easier support. But it sounds like you have a lot of your parts lined up through prior cars that you have owned.. A lot of the US companies may not list the rally stuff, but they can easily get it from their suppliers, and help provide the right BMW measurements for any of the custom stuff. RRT would definitely be a good BMW suspension company to help.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:13 PM   #29
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Quote:
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I know JRZ also makes a rally damper.
Cool, good to know! The guys that sponsored us for the Evo project AMS Performance sell both Ohlins and JRZ, so maybe I can get them interested in supporting this build as well.

Dave
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:01 AM   #30
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Still working on the interior. It appears the windshield will need to come out to allow for dash removal. There might be another way, but the windshield's cracked and its got to come out for the roll cage, so I'll try to get to that tomorrow.



Here's the car up on rally-style pin stands. The nice thing about these is that they don't take up much of any room under the chassis, so you have plenty of space to work on it if/when needed.


Last edited by DaveKern; 02-08-2010 at 06:05 AM.
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