bushings/ball joints...?

[robcarync]

yo guys whats goin on...just a few quick questions/sentences of rambling on here about what i could do to my car next...

ive come a long way since i first got my car and started learning and getting into autocross and ive put some work into it, but now im not sure what to do next.

my amp recently blew so my subs are removed and i have issues with my head unit, but basically ive been thinking im just going to leave the subs out and live with an annoying head unit and concentrate on legit mods instead of gangsta blastin bass and such and prepare for auto crossing.

i was thinking about what to do that would aid in auto crossing...and i thought about what i have already done

hr race springs/struts/x brace for suspension upgrades

dinan engine/tranny chip and an intake for the power side of things

there arent really many things to do to get power out of an m42 without going forced induction or engine swap, which is out of the question given my budget, so i was thinking what other suspension goodies i should look into.

and thus far i have come up with ... front strut bar....sway bars....and bushing upgrades (ebay bushing inserts? new bushings, urethane? rubber?, etc who knows)

sway bars being the most expensive are probably not an option at the moment, but i was thinking, my car is 11 years old, and could probably use some new bushings and rubber pieces as some maintainance to keep things fresh

now i guess the question is about bushings, since thats the part i know the least about....in fact i really no nothing about them.

ive done a few searches and i guess the bushings ive read about are rear subframe bushings and also control arm bushings and also ball joints and such

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...99&hg=33&fg=30

i think part 3 is maybe the rear subframe bushings?

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...42&hg=31&fg=05

i guess 5 is a control arm bushing? 19?

ahh someone set me straight so i at least know what parts im thinking about. and are there any more bushings or little suspension pieces that could maybe use attention?

also, would new bushings or ball joints or anything actually help handling that much or is more of a maintainance thing to refresh a car to prevent failures?

[318ti_IL]

19 is ball joint, but for 3 i have no idea. Anyway i don't know much about it.
That is first thing i did change on my 318

[jkilla71]

Originally Posted by robcarync

yo guys whats goin on...just a few quick questions/sentences of rambling on here about what i could do to my car next...

ive come a long way since i first got my car and started learning and getting into autocross and ive put some work into it, but now im not sure what to do next.

my amp recently blew so my subs are removed and i have issues with my head unit, but basically ive been thinking im just going to leave the subs out and live with an annoying head unit and concentrate on legit mods instead of gangsta blastin bass and such and prepare for auto crossing.

i was thinking about what to do that would aid in auto crossing...and i thought about what i have already done

hr race springs/struts/x brace for suspension upgrades

dinan engine/tranny chip and an intake for the power side of things

there arent really many things to do to get power out of an m42 without going forced induction or engine swap, which is out of the question given my budget, so i was thinking what other suspension goodies i should look into.

and thus far i have come up with ... front strut bar....sway bars....and bushing upgrades (ebay bushing inserts? new bushings, urethane? rubber?, etc who knows)

sway bars being the most expensive are probably not an option at the moment, but i was thinking, my car is 11 years old, and could probably use some new bushings and rubber pieces as some maintainance to keep things fresh

now i guess the question is about bushings, since thats the part i know the least about....in fact i really no nothing about them.

ive done a few searches and i guess the bushings ive read about are rear subframe bushings and also control arm bushings and also ball joints and such

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...99&hg=33&fg=30

i think part 3 is maybe the rear subframe bushings?

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...42&hg=31&fg=05

i guess 5 is a control arm bushing? 19 and or 3 are ball joints?

ahh someone set me straight so i at least know what parts im thinking about. and are there any more bushings or little suspension pieces that could maybe use attention?

also, would new bushings or ball joints or anything actually help handling that much or is more of a maintainance thing to refresh a car to prevent failures?

Bavauto sells allsteel ball joints already in the control arm and also have the upgraded control arm bushings

[jkilla71]

Good price on 10 piece E36 Control Arm Tie Rod, Sway bar Link, Bushing KIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MakeTrack=true

[robcarync]

alrighty ...so you said you replaced the control arm bushings on your 318ti...how hard was it...i know i can get to the control arm assembly and such, but it said professional installation recomended because special tools are needed, or to install a brand new control arm too to make it easier since the ball joints are already installed in the new arm. i know at least 1 (maybe both) controls arms were already replaced i think 2 years ago so it seems foolish to replace the entire control arm just for new ball joints...so id like to just get new ball joints and stick them in the current control arms if possible.

now about performance bushings...ive read that some experts say stick with rubber and dont go with urethane. urethane gives a much more stiffer ride, which i guess is ok with me since my ride is already pretty stiff. is the only downside of urethane the stiffer ride, or do experts prefer rubber for other reasons? any input...id like to hear from both sides of the issue so i can try and make my decision

also, m3 solid rubber bushings, seems like its a compromise between normal bushings and urethane bushings which may be an option. also a lot cheaper to go with m3 bushings too.

offset bushings increase caster i believe...which then increases camber in cornering which should equal better handling with less body roll...is that assessment correct?

======================

i was also checking bavauto for rear axle bushings and i see upper control arm bushings and differential mounts

are the upper control arm bushings the same as 3 in the diagram above? aka rear subframe bushings (i think)

are performance differential mounts really necessary and do they 'perform' any better in the handling department?

also, im still just kinda curious exactly how much new bushings will actually help with handling and such...do they really affect performance that much or is more of a maintainance task?

i think im understanding the front axle a bit more...still need some guidance on the rear. thanks for putting up with my lack of knowledge here


who would have thunk little chunks of rubber could be so complicated!

[marleymon]

rob- the ONLY control arm I'd suggest investing in are Meyle's w/ the Solid metal ball joints.
The control arm bushings you want are Solid rubber. They come in centered or offset. I'd get the centered so your castor remains uneffected.

You'll need a press to get these on. Pulling the parts are easy. Most parts shops, or any auto shop have these presses and can help you out. If you can afford to have someone do the whole project....let them do it.

You may want to renew the tie-rods and sway bar bushing, links...etc.

josh

[robcarync]

alright cool deal...

so looks like the m3 bushings are the ones i want for control arm bushings.

and you mentioned control arms...what if i just got the solid metal ball joints, would those fit in my current control arms so i dont need to replace both control arms? i could easily rent the press from autozone and id be able to get them in i think, if the solid metal ones can fit the stock control arm, that is.

im familiar with the suspension as i installed my springs/struts myself while going on a side journey to remove the steering arm after a bolt sheered off and was stuck in the hole and had to tap the hole to remove the bolt etc etc... so id install them myself...

so far on my list of things i guess are m3 solid rubber bushings and solid metal ball joints...

still not sure about the rear bushings and differential mount...not sure if i need some new ones or maybe just go with the ebay bushing inserts for the rear...

[marleymon]

rear bushings are limited to the trailing arm bushes...and the rear subframe bushes...oh and I guess the diffy bush too.


both are NOT easy to do....
I have new oem subframe bushings...but I passed on that install for now.

[mooseheadm5]

You need a BIG press to do the lower ball joint, but yes, the all metal ones press into your old arms. Just did one on my ti, but I have a shop and a 20 ton press. You can take the arm off and take it to a machine shop with the new ball joint and bushing (with lollipop) and have them do it for you (highly recommended) but many BMW repair shops frown on doing this, as they would rather do the whole job instead of taking time from making money to press in a ball joint for $20 (that's why I said machine shop.) Rear subframe bushings are time consuming unless you have the special tools that we do (we don't need to remove anything from the car) and you will still need someone to press them into the subframe for you.

-Paul

[L84THSKY]

Couldn't you buy the entire part as pictured with the offset control arm bushings press into the housing? What is that something tree brand that has the bushing already pressed in? I would like to do this swap maybe in the summer, but prefer swapping entire parts complete, then getting a front alignment. My camber/caster kit will correct for caster due to the offset M3 bushings.

Originally Posted by marleymon

rob- the ONLY control arm I'd suggest investing in are Meyle's w/ the Solid metal ball joints.
The control arm bushings you want are Solid rubber. They come in centered or offset. I'd get the centered so your castor remains uneffected.

You'll need a press to get these on. Pulling the parts are easy. Most parts shops, or any auto shop have these presses and can help you out. If you can afford to have someone do the whole project....let them do it.

You may want to renew the tie-rods and sway bar bushing, links...etc.

josh

[roadrash]

Originally Posted by L84THSKY

What is that something tree brand that has the bushing already pressed in?

I think you're referring to Treehouse Racing, here in Nashville, TN. I think one of the members here, scabzzzz, works for them.

JMJ

[mohaughn]

You said you need new ball joints but have 1 maybe 2 new control arms. I'm curious as to why you replaced your control arms but kept the old ball joints?

The fronts are somewhat easy to do.. You do need special tools. You either need a tool that grabs hold of the king pin and you turn a bolt which in turn presses the ball joint down and out of the king pin. The top of the ball joint is right up against the bottom of the strut so it it impossible to tap the top of the ball joint to get the control arm off of the kingping. There are articles that say you can tap the top of the ball joint that is through the front subframe from the top but I was not able to get to it through the engine compartment...

What I did was the old school way with a pickle fork. A pickle fork will destroy the ball joint boot, so they are basically ruined while being removed. As you are getting new ball joints this shouldn't matter. You just stick the pickle fork between the ball joint and subframe/kingpin and start beating on it with a big hammer. I used a two pound rubber mallet. It would have been easier with a 4 or 5 pound mini sledge..

You'll also need a 22mm and 19mm wrench. I would suggest a box end offset 22mm ratcheting wrench. For the 19mm I had to use an open end wrench because there is not enough clearance on the top of it to get a ratcheting wrench in there.

I used the treehouse racing eyeball arms. They have a delrin insert in them that can be replaced if needed but bimmerworld has never sold a replacement insert. This doesn't require any special tools to install, and you don't have to worry about getting the car back on the ground in 30 minutes for the bushing to settle in properly.

I choose not to do the rear bushings myself. I actually just talked to the mechanic that is doing the work and it is going to cost 420$ to have the rear subframe bushings, trailing arm bushings, and differential bushings replaced. I think this is a good deal. Just to give you an idea I think bookrate on just the subframe bushings is somewhere around 500-600$. Luckily I'm not paying bookrate as I would imagine if you have a mechanic that doesn't charge you for his actual time you will pay much more than that. There is nothing really difficult about the rear from what I've read but it is pretty involved. If you don't have the special BMW tool to remove the bushings while the frame is still on the car you basically have to completely remove the differential, trailing arms, rear brakes, half-shafts, drive shaft, exhaust... You get the idea... There are some DIY writeups where people were able to make their own bushing press and remove the bushings with the subframe lowered a few inches but that seems like a two person job where you basically have to fight with the bushing until it decides to come off the car.

I saw doing the rear bushings as being a several day project for me as I usually can't spend 8 hours a day working on the car. It is 400$ well spent in the long run.