Head disassembled: what valve springs to use?

[jrw21]

Hello all. I am slowly building/gathering parts for a stroker turbo m42 for my e30 318is. I hear there is a lot of great information on this forum so I joined. Actually, I talked with a guy from metric mechanic and he raved on and on about john smith on this forum.

Anyway, I am trying to get some Ideas on what valve springs to use with my setup. I am debating on the Metric Mechanic Behives, VAC Motorsports, or.. I hear m5 s38 springs fit and work great too. Not sure on the lifters yet either. My goal would be a reliable 7200-7500rpm head. More would be fine too of course.

I have the head torn down right now getting ready to drop it off at the machine shop. If it checks out ok I am going to get it cleaned, milled, and ported/polished.

The components I have on the bench are:
e36 m42 Head
e30 318is m42 Block bored out to 86.4mm
brand new s52 pistons/rings (need to be shaved still)
e30 m42 rods
m44 crank

Garrett t3 .63/.63
Tial wastegate

[tiFreak]

John Smith used springs out of a Hayabusa, good to 15k rpms, I think someone else used springs from a Volvo

[jrw21]

Wow, ok my eyes are hurting now and I am all pumped up on turbo m4x's. I just read through john's dasc and turbo threads. I must say, John, you sound like a great guy and you have a looot of crazy stories involving alcohol . Metric Mechanic was 100% correct telling me to search you out.

So, how does a guy come across these hayabusa valve springs/seats..etc?

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Hi, I'm the John. I currently use the Busa springs from a Pro Race motor and Volvo valves. Metric installed both when they had my head from the DISA incident. The springs are the very best I've had and the valves are much thicker so they are better suited for high boost turbo applications. I have had no issues and I drive my car daily. I've run the behive springs with no issues too. The Busa springs were a "Hey we got these kick A$$ springs that will fit your head want to try them?" I've got about 15K miles on the turbo setup since last July. Marko and Danny are running the springs too with no issues.

I freely share information and help if your local. I don't drink and drive anymore I learned my lesson the hard way, lucky no one was killed.

John Smith

[tiFreak]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

Volvo valves.

oh that's right, ignore that last part of my post

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by tiFreak

oh that's right, ignore that last part of my post

I don't know who runs those springs bro The valves are great

[ChrisM42Turbo]

I want to know how to install the hayabusa springs & retainers and what Volvo engine to take from it the valves and where to cut it from ?

[chzman]

Originally Posted by ChrisM42Turbo

I want to know how to install the hayabusa springs & retainers and what Volvo engine to take from it the valves and where to cut it from ?

I second this. I have the head off of my m44 now. I can either put the stock parts with 120k m on them or upgrade now. what Busa springs and Volvo valves do we use? I'm not financially ready to go the VAC route. Although they have made my fuel injector adapters to upgrade.

edit:
I never hear the timing chain discussed. i'm going to put a new one on since i have the head off. is there an upgrade to that or just an oem chain?

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by jrw21

So, how does a guy come across these hayabusa valve springs/seats..etc?

The springs Metric. The volvo valves Metric. If your not going big on boost no need for the Volvo valves, I'm the only one running them due to wanting to run 30psi someday

Be very careful on the port/polish on the head. They can loose flow if the wrong area is touched. Only remove from the inside radius and areas that restrict flow. If you remove any material from a area that is stagnet you will ruin the head. Also porting work does not net much HP on a boosted motor since your cramming air in under boost.
Best, John Smith

[jrw21]

John, thanks for the introduction. Very nice to meet you. My name is Jon and I have been a BMW freak for a long time now. I have 3 bimmers: 99 e46 323i, 98 m3 vert @ 8psi, and the work in progress 91 318is we are currently discussing.

My goal is 15psi - 20psi. 15psi would be "daily" setup and 20psi to have some short fun. What would you suggest stock valves or upgraded?

So, you wouldn't suggest touching the head in terms of a port/polish job?

Thanks.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by jrw21

. What would you suggest stock valves or upgraded?

So, you wouldn't suggest touching the head in terms of a port/polish job?

Thanks.

If you know what you are doing port is good but don't touch it unless you know exactly where to grind. Also no polish, a ruff surface is better since we are injecting fuel before the head. We want to have a surface that will induce air tumble. A very smooth polished surface will cause large fuel droplets to form. We want the fuel in small atomized droplets for a good dense charge to be fired by the plug.

If your going with 20psi I would go with the upgraded valves since they are thicker on the seat and will handle the high heat better produced during high boost. Springs are your choice. I run the Busa springs due to the super high lift on intake and high RPM I run. If your not running high lift and rpm the Behive are good. I don't know the price difference. I worry about the M44 crank at 20psi. You know a turbo I-4 at 15psi makes big HP and 20psi it's sick. I think the M44 crank is not forged and the M42 is forged.

Best, John S

Who did you talk to at Metric?

[jrw21]

I don't remember who it was at metric I talked with. The guy seemed like he was in a huge hurry and had a muffled voice..in a nutshell he said talk to you that your engine is awesome. I was a bit dissapointed in the phone service honestly. I may have just caught him at a bad time.

Anyway, I am going to have a local speed shop do the cleaning and machine work on the head. I will ask them their thoughts on porting the head to see if they know where to grind.

You are correct about the m44 crank, it is NOT forged. That worries me too I am not 100% sure I will use it. I may stick with the stock m42 forged or spring for the m47.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Well it was Teddy, Courtney or Jim. Sorry their phone service was short with you. They usually are full of information on the phone.

M47 Crank is excellent that's what I run and the stroke makes a big difference in torque. The motor is more powerful out of boost and in boost it's just plain nasty. The crank is bullet-proof

If they gring on the head just make sure they are very light with the grinder. Only take material from the inside radius of the valve pocket. There is not much area to improve. I think like 6% in flow which is not a bunch of HP but adds up with other mods. When you boost porting does not make a big difference since you are forcing air past restrictions. On a N/A car porting is needed when all other mods are in place.

I hope this clears things up. It can help but done wrong it will hurt you bad and ruin the head. This is a fact

[jrw21]

Very interesting. So, maybe I won't risk them porting the head. Or maybe I should just send my head in to MM as a core . Hmm...

Woops, forgot to ask about lifters and head gasket.. I was planning to use the stock 93+ lifters and a stock m44 headgasket.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by jrw21

Very interesting. So, maybe I won't risk them porting the head. Or maybe I should just send my head in to MM as a core . Hmm...

Woops, forgot to ask about lifters and head gasket.. I was planning to use the stock 93+ lifters and a stock m44 headgasket.

The head porting is your choice I just wanted to warn you. I would not risk it and sent mine to MM and they told me exactly what flow they got out of my head. I think the haed gasket is a special one but let me check on that, it works real good. Also get the M3 head bolts cut to fit your head from MM. They will cut the bolts so you can torque them to their tighter specs and the strech will not bottom out the bolts since they are cut. It really clamps the head good for high boost with the head gasket.

On lifters I use the stock M44 rockers that are on hydraulic lifters. I do have a noisy motor with a tiny tap due to high lift intake cam and my clutch is very noisy but these are small sacrifices to spank 99% of the cars on the road