Current thoughts and experience on Track day/Autox Tires

[spidertri]

Originally Posted by BlackBMWs

Dave, so from your experiences, is it fair to say that:

• for AutoX, the wider tire in the rear was an advantage for you
• for track days, square, thinner tires gave you a time advantage in the straights
• You see no clear advantage between 16 & 17 wheels, provided you have the right tires
• Currently, you run 15's as a reasonable performance, cost advantage

I can pick up a set of six tires to run both configurations in a 17" set of wheels. (Simply as I have the wheels already)

I'd get a set that would be great performing, but versatile enough to get home from track days on light, wet pavement

Look for a heat tolerant tire compound

OK, got it so far. Will read further on 2016 tire options. I suspect most would exceed my skill level at this point, but may as well get a set that can help me progress more easily.

Thanks! More feedback welcome... For a future reference point for others who are interested as well.

Thanks guys, I know when I was starting out I was scouring threads looking for real world advice and people's experiences with the ti. That being said, I've only been doing this a few years now, so while I can offer the setups I've tried I'm also becoming a better driver at every event just by getting more seat time.

Jimmy definitely has more experience and insight into track setups. I would not have tried 15s if I hadn't seen Jimmy post about them.

- I always ran square sets, never bothered with staggered tires at autox or on track.
- It wasn't necessarily only on the straights, that's just where it was most apparent to me. There should have been less rolling and aero resistance from the narrower tires, less work for the M44, everywhere.
- There is probably a weight savings to be had with 16s but when I was looking there was a very small selection of good tires in 16" sizes. Also, I was a new driver at that point so my comparison is somewhat limited.
- Yeah, running the 15s for a performance and cost advantage. I have not tried driving to/from the track on those wheels, that's a matter of personal comfort with having the car low.

[BlackBMWs]

Interestingly enough, I had noticed a street quickness difference running my Style 27s over Style 23, 32 or 68s but never weighed the wheel/tire combinations. The "better" tires I had mounted were typically on the larger rims.

Not as obvious or intuitive at first for me, but the weight factor does make plenty of sense. I suppose I was thinking a superior grip on the shorter/wider tire was a generally good thing.

My Style 27s currently have some cheap all seasons from the PO. I'll dig them out and give the RA1s a try.

215/50-15"?

Thanks!


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[joe1602]

For the past 2 seasons, my son (teen ti) and I have used Hankook Ventus RS-3's (version 1) on stock 16x7 wheels (225/50x16). Our first season with them we were in G Street and were always at the top of the time sheets (at least my son was) in PAX. They were great tires and worked really well. Last year we went to STX and were killed in PAX times. The tires seemed to lose some of their performance as well by the end of the season. One of our competitors ('12 Subaru WRX - D Street) went to the Bridgestone RE71-r and immediately went to the top of the Pax times. He is a very good driver but was usually 3rd or 4th in Pax, after getting those tires, he went to first in PAX by usually more than a half second or so. So this year, I managed to find a set of 17x8 Moda wheels (for free!) and went with a 245/40x17 Bridgestone RE71-r. All mounted and ready to go, but alas, in the northeast, we don't have anything scheduled until the start of May so I will be unable to let you know how those Bridgestone's work until a little later in the season. I am a little concerned with the wheels because they are pretty heavy, but free is free, I wouldn't have been able to buy the tires if I had to buy wheels as well. So for us, we are really looking forward to trying these RE71-r's out. Will keep you posted as to our progress this year!

[BlackBMWs]

Thanks Joe! When I started this thread, I was leaning towards the same tire. Now, I am open to try a few sets. I'll start with the Toyos.

I see about a $46 difference between a 15" Toyo and a 17" on Tire Rack. Either is in my ballpark, although saving $184 would cover some of the 2 days of lodging at Bimmerfest, not to mention the weight advantage we've been discussing.

Where are you all sourcing your tires if a National chain and what are you currently typically paying?


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[joe1602]

I purchased my tires from a local dealer. I paid $170 per tire, but then you had to pay the sales tax (at 8%) plus a $5 "Environmental Fee" for each tire (New York never met a fee it didn't like). So total per tire was about $188. I have a local trade school's Auto Mechanics class mount & balance them so no charge there. They came out to be about $8 more to purchase local than through tire rack (and TR's shipping costs), so I was not too worried about paying a little more, especially to a local tire shop I have been dealing with since I was 16! Good luck & keep us posted on what you go with!

[spidertri]

Originally Posted by BlackBMWs

Interestingly enough, I had noticed a street quickness difference running my Style 18s over Style 23, 32 or 68s but never weighed the wheel/tire combinations. The "better" tires I had mounted were typically on the larger rims.

Not as obvious or intuitive at first for me, but the weight factor does make plenty of sense. I suppose I was thinking a superior grip on the shorter/wider tire was a generally good thing.

My Style 18s currently have some cheap all seasons from the PO. I'll dig them out and give the RA1s a try.

215/50-15"?

Thanks!


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I don't want to give the wrong advice here. I made the decision to move to a smaller than stock tire.

Stock tire size is around 25" diameter, if you go to a 15 that isn't 205/60-15 it's going to be lower and throw the speedo off.

You can certainly run what you want but just know that there are compromises to running a smaller than stock tire. It doesn't hurt to stick with the stock tire size so you can drive to/from the track on them and gain seat time.

[jimmypet]

My gut says for set #1, try the 225 / 50 - 15"

Its a 23.9" tall tire. 1" shorter than stock, so it will be a little lower, a little lighter and a little wider.

Thats a super common size as well.
I believe thats a popular Miata size.
I know its a super popular E30 M3 size, I have run through dozens of sets of those.

[BlackBMWs]

Ya, I was figuring that in. I know my 95 TI ran the 205/60-15 setup originally on square Style 18s, so I will fish those out of storage and get them set up with the size Jimmy is suggesting. I'm a bit of a stock wheel whore, so I have a number of sizes I can experiment with.

What will be interesting is my 98 Cali I would use is already lower due to the current suspension. Another 1" lower and I will adjust to raise the chassis back up.

A note, there is a new set of Toyo R1Rs 205/45-16 for $400. Never mounted. Anyone think these would be a good choice for what we have need discussing? This would be in addition to the 15" Toyo RA1s I am already planning to set up. (I have 4 TIs)


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[BlackBMWs]

Guys, what are you finding the optimal tire pressure is once you get your Toyos (or other tires) up to temperature?

Considering a firm TI setup.


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[joe1602]

OK You guys are going to think I'm nuts, but over the last 2 years, with the ventus rs-3's 225/50x16 on stock 16x7 rims we were running 40-42 psi in the fronts and 44-45 psi in the rears. We had a lot of sidewall to deal with and at anything lower than 40 on the fronts, we were on the sidewalls. The rears we ran so high because we were trying to get the car to rotate better. I am hoping with the 245/40x17's we are going to be able to come down on the pressures more and be able to adjust the car a little better with the tire pressures.

[1996 328ti]

Originally Posted by BlackBMWs

Guys, what are you finding the optimal tire pressure is once you get your Toyos (or other tires) up to temperature?

Considering a firm TI setup.


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I gotta think it's personal preference depending our your driving style.
For me it's 40 hot all around. Any higher I feel like the tires are just melting away.

[BlackBMWs]

Thanks Steven and Joe,

Last track day, I believe I was at 37/36 on my Dunlop Direzzas at temp. Felt better grip as I dropped down from 40/39.

235/45-17 front
245/40-17 rear.

Same spec for Auto-X session.

Also, I just got a quote for the 225/50zR15 RA1s out the door. $960 shipped, mounted and balanced. Does that sound competitive to what you all have paid? They ship to Cali from Louisiana.


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[1996 328ti]

Originally Posted by BlackBMWs

Also, I just got a quote for the 225/50zR15 RA1s out the door. $960 shipped, mounted and balanced. Does that sound competitive to what you all have paid? They ship to Cali from Louisiana.

I don't recall. I usually don't look at the bill.

[joe1602]

Is that for tires AND wheels? If so that is pretty good.

[jimmypet]

Originally Posted by BlackBMWs

Guys, what are you finding the optimal tire pressure is once you get your Toyos (or other tires) up to temperature?

Considering a firm TI setup.

I personally have always liked 38 Hot, start wherever you need to to get there.
On my cars its usually been around 30 - 32 depending on ambient and how smoothly I am driving that day....