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Old 08-03-2009, 04:54 AM   #1
hudwa
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Default Engine swap weight distribution

There seems to be a lot of talk about overall weight of an engine or the entire car after an engine swap, but I've heard little regarding weight distribution. There are very few straight roads on which to really open up the throttle here in Japan, and the 318ti is perfect for attacking mountain passes where a ton of power isn't necessary to have a good time. My fear is that installing a larger, heavier engine will make the car front heavy, cause faster tire wear when going downhill and diminish the car's overall handling characteristics. Any words of wisdom or experience with how an engine swap affects not only straight-line power, but also the weight distribution and handling of the 318ti in tight cornering and slopes?
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:14 AM   #2
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I've probably posted this over a dozen times. The 6cyl motors are approximately 80lbs heavier than the 4cyl motors. All you need to do is shift about 40lbs from the front of the car to the rear to achieve the factory weight distribution. Simply relocating the battery to the cargo area and installing a carbon hood is the easiest way to go about doing this. All of this talk about swapped Ti's being "nose heavy" is just plain silly.[/thread]
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:55 AM   #3
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OK, thank you for the clarification, and sorry for the repeat question!
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:58 AM   #4
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The M42 is 220 lbs, M44 is 225 lbs. The M50 series (1995 and earlier) weight approx 299 lbs, and the M52 weigh approx 308 lbs.

HOWEVER! that does not include the weight of other items such as exhaust manifold (approx twice as heavy in the M5x series; btw Jess, I wrapped my 2nd header finally. Will take pics soon). This number also doesn't include necessary changes such as front springs/shocks to handle the excess weight, wiring harness (slightly heavier), the few lbs of adding the rear battery connection system, the rear battery hold down that's necessary to keep the battery in the back, the weight of bigger brakes in the front to balance bias, or other little things. Simply, I expect the changes to add more than 80 lbs, perhaps 120 lbs in total weight changes. A CF hood reduces weight by approx 60 lbs. Battery relocation can a good amount of mass, and simple weight reductions such as eating healther are obvious to balancing the weight .

Having driven both swapped ti's and my DASCed ti (which has a little more power than a stock M3 at the moment), I would say they drive similarly when the weight is moved around. The extra 100 lbs is hardly noticeable. However, my ti already has the larger brakes, suspension changes, and a few other weight adding factors that make it close to what an M5x series motor would add.

The best value is to swap a motor in if you know how to do it. Otherwise, a bolt on mod such as a DASC could be a better value as it doesn't require extreme mechanical skills or electrical wiring know-how that a motor swap could.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:18 AM   #5
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^^^Great points Patrick. I never really considered the accessories into the calculation. Also, a heavier medium case differential should help out as well

Can't wait to see your headers Patrick. Thinking about picking up another set for my motor and wrapping them in blue!
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:32 AM   #6
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I forgot to add, the alloy block 2.8 from the Z3 weighs 277 lbs.
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:59 AM   #7
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Also, a good way of looking at this would be to prep the rest of the car and then go for the extra power.

Start by upgrading the brakes to handle to extra stress of mountain driving and build them with the intent of stopping the extra mass and the extra speed that a engine swap will create.
Also, upgrade the suspension. If your budget allows go for a good set of coil overs from TC Kline or Koni/ground control and nice big front sway bar. The front bar really helps the handling balance of these cars. If you need to be tighter with money the tried and true Bilstein sport/H&R spring combo has worked well for people on a budget.

These mods will make the car much more enjoyable from a driving stand point and will give you a chassis that's ready for the extra power and mass of an engine swap when the time comes.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:13 AM   #8
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hmmm very good very good. btw jess, have you perpared the relocation spot for the battery?
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Float like a cadilac, sting like a BIMMER

.... my socket is just too thick and won't fit in the hole! damnit!


Marv's 332ti is in the werks. Stay tuned ya'll ...

Check list: S52 swap, manual transmission swap, 3.25 LSD with M Coupe diff cover, SuperSprint muffler, M3 style mirrors, AFE intake, ASC delete, M50 Manifold swap, UUC strut bar, ZHP lighted knob, Vaders, M-tech interior, OEM armrest, AC Schintzer front lip, AC Schnitzer rear spoiler, Roof spoiler, 18'' rims, M3 front drilled brakes, LED interior lights, 3 spoke Euro style steering wheel, OEM roof spoiler and bike holder, Thule fairing, Euro tail lights, oil pressure guage, carbon fiber hood painted to original paint (still showing CF weaving), what's next to do...?
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgbman69 View Post
Also, a good way of looking at this would be to prep the rest of the car and then go for the extra power.

Start by upgrading the brakes to handle to extra stress of mountain driving and build them with the intent of stopping the extra mass and the extra speed that a engine swap will create.
Also, upgrade the suspension. If your budget allows go for a good set of coil overs from TC Kline or Koni/ground control and nice big front sway bar. The front bar really helps the handling balance of these cars. If you need to be tighter with money the tried and true Bilstein sport/H&R spring combo has worked well for people on a budget.

These mods will make the car much more enjoyable from a driving stand point and will give you a chassis that's ready for the extra power and mass of an engine swap when the time comes.
Absolutely! If you're comfortable with the current hp, suspension and brake upgrades will be money well spent. While the factory sport suspension may be slightly stiffer than the base model suspension, it still lacks the geometry and handling that aftermarket suspension setups offer. Since your Ti already came with vented rotors, you can still benefit from steel braided brake lines, high performance pads and performance brake fluid. I couldn't agree with the previous post any more, and that says a lot because this member and myself haven't really agreed on many things lately Seriously though, you could never invest too much on suspension and brake upgrades. It'll also make you that much faster when you finally decide it's time for more power.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv17 View Post
hmmm very good very good. btw jess, have you perpared the relocation spot for the battery?
I was under the car all day today doing the diff swap and it doesn't look like there's going to be enough room where I originally planned to house it. After viewing it from the bottom, I realized that the metal that I originally planned on cutting and modifying was actually the frame rail and I'm definitely not going to compromise the structual integrity of the car. So I'll have to come up with another plan. I'll let you know what I decide once I look into it a little further.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljess76 View Post
I was under the car all day today doing the diff swap and it doesn't look like there's going to be enough room where I originally planned to house it. After viewing it from the bottom, I realized that the metal that I originally planned on cutting and modifying was actually the frame rail and I'm definitely not going to compromise the structual integrity of the car. So I'll have to come up with another plan. I'll let you know what I decide once I look into it a little further.
Jess, have you looked into a lightweight and compact battery? I've got a friend who is using a PC680MJT Odyssey ( http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680series.htm ) in his 325is. It's and STX auto-x car so he only drives it 3 or 4 times a week but he's had no problems with this battery and has used it year round for about two years now.

It's small enough to mount in the trunk area and not affect cargo space too much.

just an idea.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljess76 View Post
I was under the car all day today doing the diff swap and it doesn't look like there's going to be enough room where I originally planned to house it. After viewing it from the bottom, I realized that the metal that I originally planned on cutting and modifying was actually the frame rail and I'm definitely not going to compromise the structual integrity of the car. So I'll have to come up with another plan. I'll let you know what I decide once I look into it a little further.
Yeah. I was afraid of that. Thats what I thought as well but wanted to see what you came up with before opening my mouth and ending up being wrong about it. Well, i've been thinking a lot about a smaller battery in geometry with the closest amount of crank power and such. Came up with the Derk XL340 or something. I wonder what battery the Euro 323ti has and how it fits in there.
__________________

-Theta Chi-
Float like a cadilac, sting like a BIMMER

.... my socket is just too thick and won't fit in the hole! damnit!


Marv's 332ti is in the werks. Stay tuned ya'll ...

Check list: S52 swap, manual transmission swap, 3.25 LSD with M Coupe diff cover, SuperSprint muffler, M3 style mirrors, AFE intake, ASC delete, M50 Manifold swap, UUC strut bar, ZHP lighted knob, Vaders, M-tech interior, OEM armrest, AC Schintzer front lip, AC Schnitzer rear spoiler, Roof spoiler, 18'' rims, M3 front drilled brakes, LED interior lights, 3 spoke Euro style steering wheel, OEM roof spoiler and bike holder, Thule fairing, Euro tail lights, oil pressure guage, carbon fiber hood painted to original paint (still showing CF weaving), what's next to do...?
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgbman69 View Post
Jess, have you looked into a lightweight and compact battery? I've got a friend who is using a PC680MJT Odyssey ( http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680series.htm ) in his 325is. It's and STX auto-x car so he only drives it 3 or 4 times a week but he's had no problems with this battery and has used it year round for about two years now.

It's small enough to mount in the trunk area and not affect cargo space too much.

just an idea.
Yeah, I've considered it but I'm a little hesitant to go with a smaller battery since I do like to use the radio when I'm detailing or in between classes and such. I also like to leave the angel eyes and cluster lit up during evening meets. Clex2 has a nice setup in his s50 powered clubsport. It fits really nicely in the storage cubby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv17 View Post
Yeah. I was afraid of that. Thats what I thought as well but wanted to see what you came up with before opening my mouth and ending up being wrong about it. Well, i've been thinking a lot about a smaller battery in geometry with the closest amount of crank power and such. Came up with the Derk XL340 or something. I wonder what battery the Euro 323ti has and how it fits in there.
That's a great question Marv! I wonder how the 323ti is setup? I'm gonna research it right now!
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:46 AM   #14
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On realoem.com, it looks like the 323ti has a front mounted battery, however if you look in the "engine electrical section", it has a power distribution block listed?

Edit; found this:
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9733

Last edited by cooljess76; 08-03-2009 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:58 AM   #15
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hmmm... that got me thinking. is there a flat enough battery that would fit in our version of the US ti? i wonder. damn. i wanna go measure it out now. lol.
__________________

-Theta Chi-
Float like a cadilac, sting like a BIMMER

.... my socket is just too thick and won't fit in the hole! damnit!


Marv's 332ti is in the werks. Stay tuned ya'll ...

Check list: S52 swap, manual transmission swap, 3.25 LSD with M Coupe diff cover, SuperSprint muffler, M3 style mirrors, AFE intake, ASC delete, M50 Manifold swap, UUC strut bar, ZHP lighted knob, Vaders, M-tech interior, OEM armrest, AC Schintzer front lip, AC Schnitzer rear spoiler, Roof spoiler, 18'' rims, M3 front drilled brakes, LED interior lights, 3 spoke Euro style steering wheel, OEM roof spoiler and bike holder, Thule fairing, Euro tail lights, oil pressure guage, carbon fiber hood painted to original paint (still showing CF weaving), what's next to do...?
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