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Old 07-18-2011, 09:10 AM   #1
angus
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Default Turbo kit interest

I would like to gauge interest in an intercooled turbo kit (for low boost the intercooler could be made optional, if only running 4-5 PSI then that could cut the cost even more)

I currently build and sell a few very successful turbo kits for other cars, and with the cost of the DAS/C supercharger and the fact that it seems it's maker is not really interested in selling them, I figured maybe it is time for me to step in.

What I am proposing is a simple intercooled system that will offer a 50-75HP gain (just like the DAS/C) and will actually require less setup and install time.

It would be a completely bolt on kit that would require little or no permanent mods, would not overwork the engine and wold be as simple and clean as possible (this is the way I build things as a RULE)

Since I have a Ti, I can R&D the kit without issue and I suppose it'll work just the same for 318i and Z3 as well.

I hope the cost can be kept to $2500-ish - a price point I would personally jump at if I were on the other side of the fence.

SO let me know what you people think, if there is genuine interest I will do it.

Last edited by angus; 07-18-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angus View Post
I would like to gauge interest in a turbo kit.

I currently build and sell a few very successful turbo kits for other cars, and with the cost of the DAS/C supercharger and the fact that it seems it's maker is not really interested in selling them, I figured maybe it is time for me to step in.

What I am proposing is a simple intercooled system that will offer a 50-75HP gain (just like the DAS/C) and will actually require less setup and install time.

It would be a completely bolt on kit that would require little or no permanent mods, would not overwork the engine and wold be as simple and clean as possible (this is the way I build things as a RULE)

Since I have a Ti, I can R&D the kit without issue and I suppose it'll work just the same for 318i and Z3 as well.

I hope the cost can be kept to $2500-ish - a price point I would personally jump at if I were on the other side of the fence.

SO let me know what you people think, if there is genuine interest I will do it.
They can be done for your price or less and the power gains are much higher since the turbo is not stealing power from the crank pulley to spin the S/C. Biggest issues are oil pan turbo oil return line (Pan needs to be removed to install), CARB certs for emission states and tuning which I can connect you with through Mid-Night (Barrie has all the tunes for the I-4 (30, 42.8 and 60 pound injectors) which were done on my car as the test platform.

If you want details I have some experience with this install and relaibility.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:03 PM   #3
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If I were looking for just a low boost (8psi) turbo system, would an intercooler be necessary? The DASC is non intercooled, correct?
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:13 PM   #4
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If I were looking for just a low boost (8psi) turbo system, would an intercooler be necessary? The DASC is non intercooled, correct?
Not necessary but it adds so much power. the charge temps off a DASC are so high. intake temps are 150 and go up to 200 at 15psi. this is why we must shoot meth on a DASC to use a chemical intercooler at higher boost psi.

At 8psi the charge temps are very high and with a turbo and intercooler you can get the charge temps down to almost ambient. cooler charge temps make big HP. Also not pulling power off your crank pulley to turn the S/C is all HP to your flywheel. It is around 30-40% loss of HP to just turn the S/c to make your boost.

I was so shocked at how much power a turbo made at the same boost psi compared to a S/C. It is a combo of intercooling and not needing to turn the S/c. I will never run a S/C again...

So not adding a $125 part for intercooling is just a total waste of power. Also a turbo has much hotter charge temps then a S/C so you really need one. It is very easy to install a intercooler and the power gain is well worth it. Remember do not buy the bar and plate intercooler (Old design) buy the delta flow which is the best you can get and way better then any bar and plate system hands down.

On a side note if you look at the Buick v6 Grand National and why that motor made so much power from the factory was because it came with a factory intercooler. Intercooling is a major power maker and should not be excluded from any set-up even at low boost. Call Nick G or ask Barrie at mid-night about this...It is something that is needed and is a cheep upgrade to make more HP.

John S

Last edited by xxxJohnBoyxxx; 07-18-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:23 PM   #5
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Good info, thanks John. I was more curious than anything about why the DASC didn't have an intercooler. A basic turbo setup would definitely be fun on this car, so would a swap, lol.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:34 PM   #6
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The system I would build would be intercooled, if a person only wanted, say - 5-PSI then the intercooler could be optional and would cut the cost even more.
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
If I were looking for just a low boost (8psi) turbo system, would an intercooler be necessary? The DASC is non intercooled, correct?
The charge temps will inherently be lower on a turbo than on that type of S/C - although the charge temps at 150-200 are not crazy high, they could be lower to make more power and more importantly avoid detonation, which given the relatively low compression of the M44 is not as great of an issue and I suspect this is why the DASC is OK at those charge temps.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angus View Post
The charge temps will inherently be lower on a turbo than on that type of S/C - although the charge temps at 150-200 are not crazy high, they could be lower to make more power and more importantly avoid detonation, which given the relatively low compression of the M44 is not as great of an issue and I suspect this is why the DASC is OK at those charge temps.
Sorry don't want to be a party pooper but the M44 is not low compression it is 10:1 and can not handle a lot of boost without a chemical intercooler/octane raiser or race fuel. My opinion is 10psi is the max boost without race fuel or meth injection. You are 100% correct that low intake charge temps lower the detonation/ping of the engine.

Intercooling and you might be able to squeeze 15psi out of it with a good tune

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Old 07-18-2011, 11:01 PM   #9
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I was saying relatively low compared to some of the other motors that we turbocharge.

I would not really consider boosting the M44 over 10 PSI anyway.

I would think 5-6 PSI would be more like it, maybe 8 psi max - I am not proposing a kit here that will be DYNO KING, just a reliable HP increase.

Personally I would think that a 50-60HP is a reasonable gain and $2500 is a reasonable price point that I would be interested in myself.

Keep in mind that the beauty of the turbo kit is that if a person gets the setup, installs it on the stock motor and runs at 5-6 or even 8 psi for a while, they could easily later decide to upgrade the engine internals and boost it up to 15 or even 20 PSI or more.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:14 PM   #10
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a new DASC is too expensive, plus you'll have to upgrade a lot of other stuff to get good HP. I'm pretty sure you'll get plenty of interest in a plug and play turbo system. plug and play is the key.. and price, but you've mentionned that already. A canadian distributor is a good idea also. paying customs sucks. you two should team up ;-) Is Yoda's kit installed yet?
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:00 AM   #11
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Yes, I am going to make it so that the kit is totally plug and play, If one wants to go for higher boost then dyno tuning will be necessary otherwise as long as the AFR is checked with a wideband it should be fine.

I do have the ability to ship out of Canada or the US.
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:35 AM   #12
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I've put 15psi to a completely stock M44 for 50,000 miles and retired that motor at 173,000 as a core. The core was in perfect condition per Metric Mechanic

It would be nice to see a complete plug and play turbo kit. I would like to see any ideas on the oil pan return without oil pan removal to install the bung. I'm all ears and very open to neat/new ways to do this.

Thanks, John S
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx View Post
I've put 15psi to a completely stock M44 for 50,000 miles and retired that motor at 173,000 as a core. The core was in perfect condition per Metric Mechanic

It would be nice to see a complete plug and play turbo kit. I would like to see any ideas on the oil pan return without oil pan removal to install the bung. I'm all ears and very open to neat/new ways to do this.

Thanks, John S
Are all the M44/M42 pans aluminum? We have a solution for those.

I will probably run 8PSI or so on my car initially, I run meth injection on a lot of cars so I may decide to do that as well, allowing for more boost/safety.
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:01 AM   #14
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You can't design one system to work on all 318s and Z3s. I think there are 6 different versions of the DASC kit to account for different brackets and fittings.

So if you only have one test car, your target audience will be limited until you do testing on the variety of different configurations that exist for the 318 and the Z3.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angus View Post
Are all the M44/M42 pans aluminum? We have a solution for those.

I will probably run 8PSI or so on my car initially, I run meth injection on a lot of cars so I may decide to do that as well, allowing for more boost/safety.
Both oil pans are aluminum. can you share your way to install the oil bung without removing the pan?
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