Welcome blowin 4 DASC M90

[Danny318]

may you be interested in this kit I have here for sale?

http://www.splitsec.com/products/arc2/arc2A.htm

[lpcapital]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

Can't you do one that sandwiches between the SC and DASC intake manifold? Say maybe 2" thick. I bet I could move everyting over 2" in my car with no problem and add a longer belt plus fab a new mount from the SC to motor mount bracket.

I have no problem cutting the manifold in tow but don't know how to seal the inside so the hot boosted air doesn't go right around the cooling grid

You can get a custom core: Bell Intercoolers makes them.

To be honest the ideas I have 2 ideas. The first one requires cutting the manifold. However the core would be fitted slanted in the intake so you maximize the surface and minimize the restriction. The problem with this design is that the core is a non-standard size, so I don't know if Bell (or someone else) would be able to make it to my specs.

The second option, which would actually be my favorite, would be to add a core inside the manifold where the SC bolts to. The opening there would fit a core 4.5 x 6, which is a standard size for Bell (both in 1.25 and 2.25).

Both ways the SC would still sit where it is, so no problem there. Moreover I'm running stock 8PSI, the most I'll go would be 10PSI, so I won't need a big core. And since it's water-to-air you can play with the pump capacity and heat exchanger size to compensate for the core size. As said before for your purpose of drag racing, air-to-water would be even better as you can have a small ice box by the heat exchanger and get some very good results.

I was thinking about calling Bell up to discuss the prject with them. I also wanted to check with Jim and see how much they looked into adding an aftercooler and check the size of the opening and how much he would charge me for an extra manifold.

However work has been busier than usual, my wife and I are buying our first home, I gotta call Atlantic Consulting for that other thing... Basically I havne't got timeto do what I was supposed to... ehehehe

[blowin 4]

Originally Posted by Danny318

may you be interested in this kit I have here for sale?

http://www.splitsec.com/products/arc2/arc2A.htm

i just picked up a arc 1 on ebay but i rather have the arc 2 to but im not pay $500 for a ford maf and im sure ur not going to part them out ..i had the apex i didnt like it at all when mm is done with my engine im going to do some logs with my lm1 and have teddy @ mm burn me a chip.

[blowin 4]

wht are you asking for the kit ?????

[Danny318]

Originally Posted by blowin 4

wht are you asking for the kit ?????

maybe like 450 shipped, not sure. Its like 780 new.

this kit is specific for translating the MAF signal to something more like the AFM signal so the ECU is happy.

[blowin 4]

not bad why are you selling it did you go with a different system.

[Danny318]

Originally Posted by blowin 4

not bad why are you selling it did you go with a different system.

yeah I am going to use a megasquirt which is a full stand alone ECU, and it will use a MAP sensor instead of a MAF.

[marko]

hey, are you sure you even need to cool the charge, at 10-12 psi?
I spoke to Teddy from MM last night and pretty much told that as long as the fuel mixtire is optimal, I really do not need any additional charge cooling, UP TO 12psi.

anything past that point - must take a page out of John's book...

Originally Posted by lpcapital

Moreover I'm running stock 8PSI, the most I'll go would be 10PSI, so I won't need a big core. And since it's water-to-air you can play with the pump capacity and heat exchanger size to compensate for the core size.

[lpcapital]

Here's an aftercooler setup:

[blowin 4]

Originally Posted by lpcapital

You can get a custom core: Bell Intercoolers makes them.

To be honest the ideas I have 2 ideas. The first one requires cutting the manifold. However the core would be fitted slanted in the intake so you maximize the surface and minimize the restriction. The problem with this design is that the core is a non-standard size, so I don't know if Bell (or someone else) would be able to make it to my specs.

The second option, which would actually be my favorite, would be to add a core inside the manifold where the SC bolts to. The opening there would fit a core 4.5 x 6, which is a standard size for Bell (both in 1.25 and 2.25).

Both ways the SC would still sit where it is, so no problem there. Moreover I'm running stock 8PSI, the most I'll go would be 10PSI, so I won't need a big core. And since it's water-to-air you can play with the pump capacity and heat exchanger size to compensate for the core size. As said before for your purpose of drag racing, air-to-water would be even better as you can have a small ice box by the heat exchanger and get some very good results.

I was thinking about calling Bell up to discuss the prject with them. I also wanted to check with Jim and see how much they looked into adding an aftercooler and check the size of the opening and how much he would charge me for an extra manifold.

However work has been busier than usual, my wife and I are buying our first home, I gotta call Atlantic Consulting for that other thing... Basically I havne't got timeto do what I was supposed to... ehehehe

Originally Posted by lpcapital

Here's an aftercooler setup:

holly **** !!!! im going to build one ill enlarge the housing down o build on from a stock manifold that way i can increase the core ...thanks theres hope ....

[lpcapital]

Originally Posted by blowin 4

holly **** !!!! im going to build one ill enlarge the housing down o build on from a stock manifold that way i can increase the core ...thanks theres hope ....

I sent an email to Chad aka ZeroG who developed that or tested it or something few years back... I dunno is he still around...

[blowin 4]

ok so i went online seen some pix to get a better idea of what im up against ....my only concern is that it will restrict the air flow? but i guess with much cooler air you should be able to get more hp with higher boost!!! well i guess its the same if you add a air to air you loose boost .do you know any good sites i can get more info....

[lpcapital]

Originally Posted by blowin 4

ok so i went online seen some pix to get a better idea of what im up against ....my only concern is that it will restrict the air flow? but i guess with much cooler air you should be able to get more hp with higher boost!!! well i guess its the same if you add a air to air you loose boost .do you know any good sites i can get more info....

You're right, that was actually my primary worry: air flow restriction.

On my way home I thought about it and I might have found a solution. My idea is to rearrange the Downing Atlanta bracket that goes across the "Y" BMW support of the manifold, where the SC is then bolted on.

Right now the bracket looks somewhat like this (measures are in millimeters and are approximate):



If you take the "DASC support" and put it on the other side of the "stock Y-bracket" you gain about 34mm or 1.34". I'm not sure if this apply to your setup. Also I don't know if it would leave enough clearance on the ti between the intake and the shock tower: on my Z3 it doesn't but I think I might get away with it by replacing the intake elbow (between the TB and the SC) with the ti version which should be 180deg angle and not about 130deg of the Z3 version. All together I don't think that would be a "deal breaker". Also, as John said, the belt would likely have to be replaced with a longer one, but that too shouldn't be a problem as.

Now the 1.34" it's already enough to fit the smallest core Bell offer, which is 1.25"... But lets not stop here quite yet...

Now the manifold measures are like this (in millimeters and approximate):



The one step above the 1.25" core, it's 2.25" which is about 57mm: that means we need to remove about 57mm-34mm=23mm or about 1". This could potentially be lowered by putting a couple of washers between the "DASC support" and the "stock Y-bracket" and move the SC even further away and toward the driver side shock tower.

Now my choice would go for a Bell core of 2.25" (57mm) thick, 13.3 (337mm) long, and 6" (152mm) tall. Now the DASC manifold it's only 95mm tall which means we would have to do some additional fabrication.

My next steps on this is to call Jim at DA and see if they have the draws of the intake in AutoCAD so I can play around with it. I will also try to give Bell a call and see what they say.

To address Marko concern, I would say that regardless, when you compress air it gets hot and remove that heat can only benefit performance.
Here's some numbers: the compressor discharge of our Eaton at 8PSI is about 140F above atmosferic; if we go 15PSI we're talking 220F. An intercooler with 8PSI will likely lower the temp delta to about 20F or 35F at 15PSI. At 10:1 compression with 8PSI we're talking about 1250F with no IC compared to 1050F with IC. Interesting thing is that 1050F is very close to the limit at which gasoline self ignite which means with an IC at 8PSI you can probably run just as much timing as under NA. Same compression but 15PSI we're looking at 1400F compared to 1080F: here's the benefit of an IC are even grater.

[blowin 4]

the core is so small do you thing it's even worth the trouble ??? ill be running 20 -25 psi when i get my motor back from mm i think the only thing that will help me out is meth at those boost levels ...i thought about taking a stock manifold and mod the hell out of it and put the biggest core posable ....

[Criswell]

Ok, on a turbo charged car, i can see needing an intercooler, because the turbo is spooled up by firey hot exhaust gas. On a supercharger though, its a whole different ball game. Its powered by the rotating assembely of the motor in one way or another. Sure, colder air = more horsepower, but you dont typically see a 65 mustang (example) with a supercharger WITH an intercooler, theres not really a realistic way to pipe air through a supercharger, THEN an intercooler to cool it and into the motor, as most superchargers are directly before an intake. im not saying the colder air wouldnt be beneficial, but i definately dont think its a must. Its more of a matter of how to pipe it. a pre-cooler is feasable, but an aftercooler, really isnt , assuming youre using a roots style blower that is. a Centrifugal though, you could essentially run the same as a turbo.