Everybody needs to read this about PayPal

[cooljess76]

PayPal offers no protection against sellers shipping an incorrect or damaged item outside of ebay. Recently I purchased an alternator from a member on bf.c for $75. I was very clear in my post which model I was interested in and the condition it had to be in before I purchased it. The seller sent me two photos of the alternator as it was installed on his car. The photos looked okay, so I sent payment via paypal where the funds were transfered from my bank account. The alternator arrived a week later but was clearly the wrong one and looked nothing like the one that the seller sent me photos of. I contacted the seller and he refused to cooperate. I then opened a paypal dispute and the seller continued to deny there was a problem with the item he sent me. I escalated the dispute to a claim at which time paypal immediately closed the case. I received a message from paypal stating that they only deal with shipping issues, not issues with an items quality or condition. I called paypal and talked to a guy named Todd. He basically repeated that paypal will not investigate matters unless an item was not received. So as an analogy, I asked him what would happen if a seller sent a box of tissue instead of a car part. He then repeated that paypal has no interest in investigating matters of an items quality or condition, only matters where an item wasn't received. So now I'm stuck with a $75 rusty alternator, the seller faces no penalties and paypal claims no responsibility in the matter. This isn't the first time that paypal has "looked the other way". As much as i hate to admit it, I was a victim of an ebay scam back in February of 2006. I won an auction for a plasma TV and paid with paypal. Again, my paypal account was linked to my bank account and funding was transfered from my account balance. I never received an item and went through the claims process. The seller closed his/her account before paypal was able to recover any of the funds. Back then, paypal had a policy that if an ebay seller had less than +50 feedback, the buyer was not covered under their protection. It has since changed, but the policy is not retroactive. So in that incident, I lost $1898.00. Yes you read that correctly, one thousand eight hundred and ninetyeight dollars!!! So This makes two times that paypal has looked the other way and offered me no protection as a buyer whatsoever.

While I must say that 318ti.org is a more trustworthy COMMUNITY than bimmerforums.com, there have been instances where people have gotten ripped off. There's nothing stopping sellers from shipping "empty boxes" and if you receive it, PAYPAL WILL DO NOTHING TO INVESTIGATE MATTERS OR RECOVER YOUR FUNDS. My next course of action is to contact an attourney and hopefully build a case against paypal. I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened to, perhaps we can arrange a class action lawsuit.

This is my warning to everyone, paypal offers no protection against sellers shipping empty boxes, incorrect items and/or damaged goods. USING PAYPAL TO PURCHASE AN ITEM OUTSIDE OF EBAY IS NO BETTER THAN SENDING CASH IN THE MAIL.

[Bluebimma]

I told you about that last year with the suspension i had sold. There was nothing wrong with the suspension i sold, but the buyer escalated it, paypal took my money, we went back and forth, then i escalted it because i wasnt waiting for the 30 days to come up. They screwed up my bank account ROYALLY with it, because it pulled from my bank account as well and overdrew me which also put me out on the street because none of my bills were paid for in the meantime because of the negative balance and other transactions that eventually caused fines and fees. It was a big mess that costed me well over 3k, my home, and a lot of other things. After that, i called them and asked what they were going to do, the guy closed it and said, "its not an EBAY transaction, we dont care, your funds are returned and your account is unfroze. I didnt appreciate any of it from the buyer nor the seller, over false accusations, which everyone here on the board viewed first hand.

[b.u.ti-ful]

Wow, sorry to hear those stories.

I guess I have been pretty lucky.

I'll keep these warnings in mind.

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by Bluebimma

I told you about that last year with the suspension i had sold. There was nothing wrong with the suspension i sold, but the buyer escalated it, paypal took my money, we went back and forth, then i escalted it because i wasnt waiting for the 30 days to come up. They screwed up my bank account ROYALLY with it, because it pulled from my bank account as well and overdrew me which also put me out on the street because none of my bills were paid for in the meantime because of the negative balance and other transactions that eventually caused fines and fees. It was a big mess that costed me well over 3k, my home, and a lot of other things. After that, i called them and asked what they were going to do, the guy closed it and said, "its not an EBAY transaction, we dont care, your funds are returned and your account is unfroze. I didnt appreciate any of it from the buyer nor the seller, over false accusations, which everyone here on the board viewed first hand.

I remember that. The same guy tried to rip VROOMCP off when he sold him a set of wheels. Both of those instances the crook was the buyer. I know you and VROOMCP both to be stand up reputable individuals. In my case, the seller is screwing me over. There's gotta be something we can do besides the obvious "stop using paypal". I know whatever I/we say, people are going to continue using paypal at their own risk. I'm seriously going to talk to a lawyer and see if there's any way we can perhaps put together a claim where multiple victims can ban together and sue the hell out of paypal. I'm certain it's been done before, hence PayPal constantly changing their policies.

[Bluebimma]

From what ive gathered, over the 6 years of using paypal, its use at your own risk ORRRRR, use EBAY. Sure it may cost you a couple bucks, as a seller, to list it and sell to the buyer, but it forces paypal to back you up as well as the protection of ebay and your credit card company. Outside use of paypal, i try not to make larger purchases and such just because of this very type of situation(s). Its somewhat easier if you can see it in person before taking it away. As a buyer, you can ask if they can list it on ebay, as further protection to yourself. If you and the seller can compromise by spending the extra like 1.00$ to list a buy it now on ebay with each other, it says that neither of you are trying to screw each other over and if it does happen, youre pretty well covered.

[cooljess76]

Yeah, bottom line is that over the past 3 years I've let my guard down. It could happen to anyone. That doesn't change the fact that paypal sucks and scrowley111 on bf.c is a liar. What really sucks is that people get to do this and the forum nor paypal will do anything about it. I mean I can go on bf.c and start my own thread which nobody will ever read before purchasing parts from this guy, but I can't go into his threads where he's getting ready to sell an item and warn people. It's only 75 bucks this time, and I still have the alternator which I can sell to recoupe my money, but it's the principle and I feel cheated. Again, it's my own fault for not going through ebay and not paying with a credit card, but I know I'm not the only one who does it. Anyway, this thread isn't for me to vent, it's to warn people how screwed up paypal is and while I hate to admit it, I'll probably continue to use paypal since it's practically the only method of payment sometimes. I have the guys address and if I ever end up in Conneticut, I'll be sure to bring the alternator so I can throw it through his living room window, lol.

[Bluebimma]

Heh, ill help you toss it in there . I continue to use PP, though, i know that its at your own risk besides through ebay and your CC company.

BTW Jess, lets hit up the east coast, then take a point to point US road trip for Bfest.

[spidertri]

Is it possible to fund paypal only through a check card/credit card? If you could do that then you could have credit card company go after the person if they pull crap like this. I've always heard to pay with a check card if possible since VISA (or whoever) is really good about getting your money back if something happens.

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Is it possible to fund paypal only through a check card/credit card? If you could do that then you could have credit card company go after the person if they pull crap like this. I've always heard to pay with a check card if possible since VISA (or whoever) is really good about getting your money back if something happens.

That's pretty much what I did. It's a Visa check card. I purposely didn't give PayPal my credit card info as I only use it in emergencies. This way I don't have to deal with the monthly bills/interest and if someone does manage to hack my account, they can only get to the funds in my checking account and not my savings or credit. I don't keep large amounts in the checking account

In fact, IIRC I had to transfer funds into checking when I paid/got ripped off for the plasma TV that I never got.

I called paypal again and talked to another agent(moron). This guy said exactly the same thing as the other guy. Almost as if they were reading the same script! So you know this happens a lot and this is just their way of dealing with it. I asked him if he would use paypal knowing that they don't offer any protection, to which he replied "yes, because I know my financial information will be safe". I then asked well what if a seller sends you a box stuffed with toilet paper instead of the items you purchased, to which he replied "I would contact my financial institution". Well, I did that last time and guess what, the banks tell you that they can't do anyting, you have to go through paypal or get a lawyer! The guy on the phone also said that paypal will work with credit card companies but they will not work with the individuals involved. I asked him "so paypal offers absolutely no protection to buyers outside of ebay?" He said, "we protect your finacial information so sellers can't see it." Then I said "so whats the difference between sending cash in the mail? At least then nobody has to pay paypal fees for a false sense of security". No comment... So Tony, the a-hole who ripped you off either went through his credit card company or paypal is lying to me.

[RAiMA]

Sorry to hear you got cheated. Thanks for the heads up.

[Bluebimma]

Hmm, thats very interesting. As far as i know, he just went through paypal, then threatened small claims and all this other stuff. Once paypal dropped it, i never heard from him again until the feedback that was left on my profile, which showed his maturity to the fullest.

[tiFreak]

you're not alone
http://paypalsucks.com/

I had a problem where they froze my account when I sent several payments to the same person, ended up taking a week for the guy to get my money and I had to go through a bunch of crap to unfreeze my account, luckily I actually knew the guy but if it was an eBay seller or something that could have really sucked

[b.u.ti-ful]

Here is a good story from that site

http://paypalsucks.com/SuePayPal-1.shtml

[M3ti-ish]

Very good post cooljess76 paypal is useless unless it for ebay now adays, and paypal our pros at holding your money now cause that supposely hold money at random now and expect you to the send the item out while they hold the money and cant grantatee that you'll get your money ever!

[b.u.ti-ful]

Yeah, I sold a motorcycle seat on ebay a little while ago and I UPS'd it the same day because I always send fast and wanted it out of here.

The next day Paypal takes the money out of my account and says they are doing an investigation.

They asked me for proof that I shipped the item and I had the tracking number so I had proof immediately.

I emailed the buyer who was a great guy and he answered that he knew nothing about it.

A handful of days later they put the money back in and never told me any reason.