6 cylinder swap Vs. supercharger

[tastade]

7-8 psi should be fine to run without an intercooler, anything over that would probably be a stretch though. Many stock 80s turbos had 7 or so psi boost with no intercooler and ran 150k miles without trouble (I am thinking of a Z31 300ZX). 7 or 8 psi boost is relatively low.

Besides, read this quote about the DASC from their website:

Unlike a turbocharger, the Eaton supercharger does not contribute to underhood heat. Our kit only increases the intake charge air by 69 degrees even when underhood temperatures are over 150 degrees Fahrenheit. Because our supercharger is hung off of the engine in a position that receives large amounts of airflow, our total system efficiency is very high. It is not a stretch to state that the Eaton supercharger in our application acts as a sort of intercooler itself. We did not need to add the expense or complication of a flow-through intercooler and the loss of boost that comes with its use.

A 69 degree F temp increase is much less than the average of over 150 degrees F / 7 PSI boost as typical (from other sources). That really is as effective as an intercooler.

[DustenT]

Originally Posted by 316i compact

Whos the one who dont know what he is talking about, u studip? HOW MANY FACTORY SUPERCHARGED CARS DO YOU KNOW WITHOUT INTERCOOLER/AIR-WATER COOLER?

I'm having a hard time understanding what you just posted. I think you called me stupid. I don't think you read what I posted, did you? It's not like 200wrhp is a magic number, is it? I've seen dynos of DASC'd cars that show between 170 and 210 hp at the wheels, it depends what else you have done for modifications to the car, what elevation you are at, humidy, temperature, dyno brand, etc... Ultimately, all that matters is that it provides a 40% increase in power (140x1.40=196).

I believe most of the factory supercharged cars that use the Eaton m62 and m90 aren't intercooled. The MB Kompressors and Pontiac aren't intercooled. The only one that I know of that IS intercooled in the new GM line (Saturn Redlines and Cobalt SS).

I agree that an intercooler would be nice for the DASC, but I don't think its at all necessary. I've been driving mine for 40k miles and I've never had a problem with heat or detonation. Adding an intercooler would only add more complexity to an amazingly well designed, maintenance free supercharger kit, I think this is the reason that DA didn't integrate one into the manifold.

This discussion has gotten trivial and off-topic. Let's try to keep the posts informative and accurate. Again, this is a thread for I6 vs. SC discussions, you can start a new thread if you want to use to your ricer logic to further educate me. Thanks.

[tastade]

Read my updated post one above as well Dusten, you are right, there is no need for an intercooler for this application.

[96cali]

I know for a fact that Lisa's Ti at www.understeer.com ran over 190 rwhp on a hot summer day- I was there, in fact I thought it was 196rwhp. Only drivetrain mods were exhaust and flywheel/clutch. Since then I think they've installed Nick G's software and a pulley:

From Understeer.com
"After getting sick of removing Downing's rising rate fuel pressure regulator at every oil change, I decided to upgrade to Technique Tuning's Stage 3 software and fuel injector package. The set also does away with the DISA valve and the fuel injector air bypass lines, so it really cuts down on the underhood clutter. With the custom tuning and addition fuel, it's possible to up the boost as well, so an IIAS 3.4" DASC pulley went on at the same time to step the boost up to ~10psi. With the stock DASC setup the car dynoed at 191rwhp, it's now up to 200rwhp with much smoother mid throttle acceleration and lots more torque. Stock DASC versus Stage 3 upgrade dyno."

[mss318ti]

Dredder: Just trying to clarify your statement you think it is possible to get a rebuilt S50/52, all accessories, install the engine, and supercharge it for under $10K. If so then do it, i dont see it happening. Maybe a used engine but then how do you know how reliable the engine is or its history, again this is a far stretch in my opinion? Say if you were to find a good priced used M3 engine and supercharge that explain to me how an engine with 100,000 miles or so is in better condition to be supercharged than a totally rebuilt 0 mileage M44 that has been built solely to be supercharged. Your statement about there being no replacement for displacement is not exactly correct but I understand why you would say that and in the beginning of my first reply I even stated that the S50/52 had more potential to make massive power because of its larger displacement. Also good job on the swap, it shows you do have a good deal of technical know how. Lastly Im sorry you cant make a four banger as you put it get more than 200HP and still be reliable, we can, we have, and we will stand behind them when we sell them. Mohaughn: If you were to get the Stage 2 and want to upgrade later on to the rebuilt block we could easily send just the block alone without the supercharger with it, in fact thats what we are hoping people will want to do. But the option will be out there for people to simply buy the whole Stage 3 engine at one time, and yes the warranties overlap in most areas when you upgrade so you are covered while you have the new parts as well.

Greg
SCRIVNER BMW Performance

[Dredder]

Originally Posted by mss318ti

Dredder: Just trying to clarify your statement you think it is possible to get a rebuilt S50/52, all accessories, install the engine, and supercharge it for under $10K. If so then do it, i dont see it happening. Maybe a used engine but then how do you know how reliable the engine is or its history, again this is a far stretch in my opinion? Say if you were to find a good priced used M3 engine and supercharge that explain to me how an engine with 100,000 miles or so is in better condition to be supercharged than a totally rebuilt 0 mileage M44 that has been built solely to be supercharged. Your statement about there being no replacement for displacement is not exactly correct but I understand why you would say that and in the beginning of my first reply I even stated that the S50/52 had more potential to make massive power because of its larger displacement. Also good job on the swap, it shows you do have a good deal of technical know how. Lastly Im sorry you cant make a four banger as you put it get more than 200HP and still be reliable, we can, we have, and we will stand behind them when we sell them. Mohaughn: If you were to get the Stage 2 and want to upgrade later on to the rebuilt block we could easily send just the block alone without the supercharger with it, in fact thats what we are hoping people will want to do. But the option will be out there for people to simply buy the whole Stage 3 engine at one time, and yes the warranties overlap in most areas when you upgrade so you are covered while you have the new parts as well.

Greg
SCRIVNER BMW Performance

My friend, i there now........
That’s with a professional swap installer...If I was to put vf-SC with no install that would put me under $10K....That’s not my goal right now...I think the TI is done with all the mods. I need a daily driver. I need to concentrate on boosting my 325is. I'll be there soon with stock ECU tuned courtesy of me......

[mss318ti]

Sorry, I dont quite understand what you are saying.

Greg
SCRIVNER BMW Performance

[Negrodamus]

I guess It would always depend on budget.... How come people who couldnt afford the e36 m3 motor settle for a e36 328 motor or e36 325 motor. They always go for much cheaper that the m3 motors and aren't driven as hard. With m3 header upgrade mod m3 cams and appropriate chip tuning I would think that this would be a good alternative cause there's alot of those motors around going for $1k up to $2500. Heck you could even get a wrecked e36 325 or 328 car for less that a M3 motor as a donor. Once you drop in the above non M3 motors you could get a supercharger and be just as quick or maybe even quicker that a M3 but for less money. This being said would still put a increase on the worth of the 318ti even though you are not swapping in a M3 motor. Its just crazy how unreasonably priced German motors are compaired to other car makers which sometimes makes motor swap's with bimmers not as likely. Me? Consider me a swap meet tuner I look for the cheapest and most practical engine mods or swaps, heck when I eventually get a 318ti I would go this route to be honnest what better props could you get for putting in something non M3 and be able to beat M3's with it?

Negrodamus