Intermittent starting issue

[zoner]

I've searched almost all of the previous threads on this issue and while I've learned quite a bit about all of the various electrical gremlins that can be hard to track down, my issue seems to involve some, but not all, of this and a little bit of that but not that one thing...

Over the past week, I took Sabine on a 950+ mile trip around California- from the city to desert to the mountains to the coast. This problem (thankfully) didn't pop up until the last day of my trip when I got in the car to start it up for the drive home. Turned key, ignition turned on- all dash lights working, fuel pump working, would not crank. No click, no starter engagement whatsoever. Checked all fuses and checked for obvious loose connections, everything looked good. Tried jumping the contacts on the clutch starter switch plug to no avail (although, I'm not 100% that I was getting good contact on the plug). I'll back up a little bit and say that for the past few weeks, when I start the car, there is a noise coming from the starter for a second or two that sounds like the bendix isn't disengaging (like the starter gear is briefly dragging once the car kicks over). I was able to push start the car and it started right up no problem.

Drove about 75 miles with no problem until I stopped, parking it on a hill in case I had to bump it again. Turned it off and restarted it again (while it was still hot) about a half dozen times without a problem. Once it had cooled for a couple hours, it would not start again unless I bumped it. Drove it the rest of way home and once I got home, I shut it off and restarted it with no problem several times (car was still hot).

Got up yesterday morning and it kicked right over, but when I shut it off after idling for a few minutes, it would not restart. Got up this morning, would not start again. I put a voltmeter on it a short time ago and had 12.65 volts across the battery terminals. Positive terminal to chassis also yielded 12.65 volts, so it doesn't appear to be a grounding problem (I cleaned all of the terminals and connections just in case, but still no start and still the same voltage).

Given the noise that the starter was making prior to it not starting, as well as the starting seemingly being sensitive to engine temperature, I'm leaning towards the starter being the culprit but I'd hate to change it out, only to have the problem remain.

Has anyone ever experienced this particular issue or have any ideas of what to check next? (or have a definite way to check if the starter is bad that doesn't require removing it and bench testing it?) Thank in advance for any advice!

[cooljess76]

Yeah, mine did something similar. It ended up being the main engine ground located near the passenger side motor mount. One end connects to the motor mount arm, the other to the passenger frame rail. Mine had came loose on the chassis end and was arcing. You should be seeing 13-14v across the terminals when it's running. I was getting a fluctuating voltage of 10.5v-12v. My theory is that when it peaked at 12v, the cable would arc enough to jump the gap between the cable and chassis and then the voltage would drop back down. Gave me the same intermittent starting problem that you're having and eventually drained three brand new diehards. Clean and reconnect that ground, then recheck the voltage across the terminals.

If that doesn't work, sometimes the cam/crank position sensors will get gunked up and cause the engine not to crank. When this happens, sometimes you can roll the car forward or backwards a couple feet and drop it in gear, just enough to move the crank a few milimeters so the CPS will register it's in the correct position. Be careful if you mess with those sensors though. The wires are usually pretty brittle.

[zoner]

Checked main chassis ground and it appeared snug and solid so I push started it again, drove it for about 30 minutes to heat it up, and brought it back home. After getting back to the house, voltage across terminals was a steady 14.03 volts at idle; same voltage across pos. term. to various points along chassis and engine block. Turned off and restarted 10 times in a row, until cranking started to sound a little weak. Went and drove it for another 10 minutes and came back to the house. Turned off and restarted 5 more times, left it idling to check voltage- over the course of about 5-10 minutes, it slowly rose from 13.68 to 13.94 volts across terminals and various points on the chassis. Shut it down and let it sit for about 30 minutes; restarted 5 times in a row, but starter was beginning to sound very weak by the last crank. I then let it cool down for about 2 hours, went out to restart and nothing (no clicks, no weak crank). I waited another 30 minutes, still nothing. Interesting to note that since the time I drove it earlier for about 30 minutes, the starter is no longer hanging up after it cranks over, but it does sound considerably weaker (even after recharging the battery).

Is the crank sensor in a different place on the M44? On my M42, it was right on the front crank pulley. There is no such sensor in the same location on the M44. Also, I'm assuming if the sensors are getting a bad reading, they won't necessarily throw a trouble code, unlike if they were actually bad/defective?

[cooljess76]

Honestly I don't know if the M44 has a crank sensor or where it is. Sounds like your starter solenoid might be going bad.

[zoner]

Yeah, I've thought from the moment it first started that something was up with the starter, especially since it had been making noises for a few weeks. I was just concerned that it it also could be something else, especially after reading so many different people's experiences with it being something other than the starter...

Now I guess I get to decide if I want to tackle this myself or have the shop take care of it. I've heard shop labor on this is anywhere from 1.5 to 5.5 hours. I can deal with paying for 1.5-2.5 hours of labor... 5+ hours just sounds ridiculous for a shop to do a starter, especially when they have the tools and expertise.

Thanks for the insight, Jesse.

[skkamer24]

Hello, I am having similar issues with my 1997 318ti. I just purchased the car and had to replace the ignition switch due to the key spinning. The previous owner informed me that the car had starting problems. We started the car by attaching a jump start and it started . Now when trying to start I get nothing. I turn the key over all electrical on the dash lights up, I get a click out of the ignition switch and nothing happens, I can also hear a click coming from somewhere behind the glove box. I have replaced the battery, checked the grounds and fuses. Any ideas on what to check next. It is an automatic so I can not push start. Thanks for the help.

[skkamer24]

Well I jumped in the car yesterday after work and it started fine, 4 times in a row. This morning got in and it was doing the same thing. Turn switch over lights come on dash, click, no start at all. Help!!!

[zoner]

In my instance, it was definitely the starter. Once the car was at operating temp., it would start all the time with no problems. Once it sat overnight or for more than an hour or so, nothing- no clicks, no starter or solenoid engagement, nothing but dash lights. Since I replaced the starter, I haven't had a problem.

You've already checked the grounds, but is the alternator charging correctly? Have you checked the battery voltage? (across the terminals; from the pos. terminal to various chassis grounds, etc., both with just the key on and while running) I'd try these things next, but the starter can definitely do funky things if it's in the process of dying... Good luck!

[skkamer24]

Thanks, I will def check that out. Put in a brand new battery, cleaned all cables from the battery to the car. The Starter is the only thing left. Will post after checking that.

[skkamer24]

Took out the starter, had it tested, locked up. Replaced and fixed starting issues. Thanks for the help.

[zoner]

Awesome. Glad you're back on the road!

[fieldhb]

The starting problem is very intermittent.
It seems like when I leave it get cold, it starts fine. Like if I don't start the car for days, it will start right up.
But if I drive the car, stop and try to start it again, I will have to try like 3 -5 times before it will start.
There is also a "wheezing" noise.
I was going to start with changing the fuel filter, then the spark plugs, then I am not sure.

I let the car sit overnight so it was stone cold, and i tried starting it 3 times in a row. It started fine each time.

[kalimot]

Originally Posted by fieldhb

The starting problem is very intermittent.
It seems like when I leave it get cold, it starts fine. Like if I don't start the car for days, it will start right up.
But if I drive the car, stop and try to start it again, I will have to try like 3 -5 times before it will start.
There is also a "wheezing" noise.
I was going to start with changing the fuel filter, then the spark plugs, then I am not sure.

I let the car sit overnight so it was stone cold, and i tried starting it 3 times in a row. It started fine each time.

i also have the same issue. intermittent, no crank, never on a cold engine. any ideas?

[fieldhb]

Originally Posted by kalimot

i also have the same issue. intermittent, no crank, never on a cold engine. any ideas?

My car always cranks, always tries to turn over. just when it is cold it seems to hit right a away. And there is a wheezing sound, so I am thinking for me it would be a sensor, maybe too much gas is being supplied or not enough air. Or the other way around.

For your problem, did you already check your ground from your battery ?

[fieldhb]

I took my car over to advance auto and had them test the starter and it is bad.
I looked over the diy replacement and i think it would just cause me a lot of frustration.
So I will take it to an auto mechanic to replace the starter.
Anyone know a good mechanic in the Columbus Ohio area ?