318ti....poor man's BMW?

[Gunnails]

Originally Posted by L84THSKY

Speaking of American cars in Europe, they're practically non existent!

Americans are stupid enough to buy "American" cars out of loyalty or a false sense of quality. All foreign cars compete in Europe, Americas and Asia. That gives them a more objective qualitative measurement. No one outside of the Americas, would buy an American car, either because of the gas guzzling engines, inferior quality, or lack of parts.

When Amerians stop buying US cars, the US car companies will have no market. That is why they have joint ventures and ownership with foreign auto makers. They see the writing on the wall.

BTW, I own hundreds of American Made products, but a car will never be one of them.

================================================

Got to speak up for American cars, No other auto maker makes a full size truck or van that can compete with american made trucks and vans, Now when it comes to small trucks that is a different issue, I had an 88 F150 4wd drove it for over 100,000 miles and sold it for $2800 in 95 with 175,000 miles, never any major repairs, Currently I have a 94 E150 Ford cargo van I bought with 22,000 miles and now has 218,000, I did have to rebuild the tranny at about 100,000 miles, but other then that no major repair bills, this van is a work truck and daily driver has a lumber rack and I use it to carry tools and materials, I do not baby it, the ting runs strong still and the body and interior has held up great, Love American trucks.

[davep-uk]

the Ti was definately a good seller over here but still a rare sight on the roads in the UK. and when compared with a saloon or coupe of the same year, more expensive to buy.

yeah, the interior is a bit plasticy and the rear suspention is from a second world war tank but it is definately a great little car! besides, the boot is bigger than a saloons when youve got the rear seats down.

ive never owned a BMW before but i can honestly say that i would buy a compact again. probably a 325ti e46.

great car! rarity! great handling and a prestige badge too.

[2ndBimmer]

Originally Posted by L84THSKY

Americans are stupid enough to buy "American" cars out of loyalty or a false sense of quality. All foreign cars compete in Europe, Americas and Asia.

...

BTW, I own hundreds of American Made products, but a car will never be one of them.

A recent Car & Driver had a mid-sized sedan comparo. 4 cars, a Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, and a Ford.

The Ford was the only one not made in the USA. (Its produced in Mexico like most VWs [at least the VWs for the NA market].)

[DustenT]

Originally Posted by Gunnails

================================================

Got to speak up for American cars, No other auto maker makes a full size truck or van that can compete with american made trucks and vans, Now when it comes to small trucks that is a different issue, I had an 88 F150 4wd drove it for over 100,000 miles and sold it for $2800 in 95 with 175,000 miles, never any major repairs, Currently I have a 94 E150 Ford cargo van I bought with 22,000 miles and now has 218,000, I did have to rebuild the tranny at about 100,000 miles, but other then that no major repair bills, this van is a work truck and daily driver has a lumber rack and I use it to carry tools and materials, I do not baby it, the ting runs strong still and the body and interior has held up great, Love American trucks.

True. Have you seen the new Honda Ridgeline? Nicest truck I've seen, ever. It has the size to compete with an F150, but it rides like a car. Asian auto makers will have the truck market dominated by 2010. The new Nissan Titan is another good example.

America failed to adopt the successful Asian manufacturing process. They didn't understand or care for it. Now we pay the price. Factories are being retooled to compete with Asia, people loose thier jobs, unions strike. It's a viscous cycle that guarantees the US will not be able to compete with foreign markets for much longer. Too bad for them. Ok for us, we get better cars!!

[Gunnails]

Originally Posted by DustenT

True. Have you seen the new Honda Ridgeline? Nicest truck I've seen, ever. It has the size to compete with an F150, but it rides like a car. Asian auto makers will have the truck market dominated by 2010. The new Nissan Titan is another good example.

America failed to adopt the successful Asian manufacturing process. They didn't understand or care for it. Now we pay the price. Factories are being retooled to compete with Asia, people loose thier jobs, unions strike. It's a viscous cycle that guarantees the US will not be able to compete with foreign markets for much longer. Too bad for them. Ok for us, we get better cars!!

===================================================

Well I cant disagree, I got a buddy with a full size Tacoma and he loves it, but up to this point there is no serious competition in the USA for work trucks (full size Vans and 1+ tons) just got to give props to Chevy, Ford, and Dodge for that, but I am sure this will change in the future.


By the way this 96 Cali Pkg 318ti that I got for my Daughter was the most fun I ever had buying a used car, Price was competitive with Toyo, Honda, etc., I love that car more every day, unique , practical and sporty

[davep-uk]

Originally Posted by DustenT

True. Have you seen the new Honda Ridgeline? Nicest truck I've seen, ever. It has the size to compete with an F150, but it rides like a car. Asian auto makers will have the truck market dominated by 2010. The new Nissan Titan is another good example.

America failed to adopt the successful Asian manufacturing process. They didn't understand or care for it. Now we pay the price. Factories are being retooled to compete with Asia, people loose thier jobs, unions strike. It's a viscous cycle that guarantees the US will not be able to compete with foreign markets for much longer. Too bad for them. Ok for us, we get better cars!!

i would love to get a great big American F-150 harley davidson Lightning (and i do keep toying with the idea) but with our petrol prices at almost £1.00 per litre it is a definate NO! there is no way i could afford to run a 5.4 litre supercharged engine when i could easily buy a new Mitsubishi L200 with a 2.5 litre diesel engine.and run it relatively cheaply!

U.S cars have got too bigger engines! and cost to much to run!

[cali-ti]

Originally Posted by DustenT

America failed to adopt the successful Asian manufacturing process. They didn't understand or care for it. Now we pay the price. Factories are being retooled to compete with Asia, people loose thier jobs, unions strike. It's a viscous cycle that guarantees the US will not be able to compete with foreign markets for much longer. Too bad for them. Ok for us, we get better cars!!

you mean the charles deming (sp?) process (who's an american, btw)? he presented it to the auto manufacturers here, but they weren't interested. their stupidity then is still being felt. only now are US autos even coming close. the process is one of constant improvement and takes time. between that and the unions, US autos are in deep doodoo.

[cali-ti]

Originally Posted by davep-uk

yeah, the interior is a bit plasticy and the rear suspention is from a second world war tank but it is definately a great little car! besides, the boot is bigger than a saloons when youve got the rear seats down.

great car! rarity! great handling and a prestige badge too.

hmmm ... that same second world war tank suspension that the e30 m3 used? how's it handle so great with that old crappy suspension?

[davep-uk]

Originally Posted by cali-ti

hmmm ... that same second world war tank suspension that the e30 m3 used? how's it handle so great with that old crappy suspension?

haha, i knew i wouldnt get away with that!

i just meant that it isnt as good as it could/should have been!

[cali-ti]

Originally Posted by davep-uk

haha, i knew i wouldnt get away with that!

i just meant that it isnt as good as it could/should have been!

there are those who would argue that the e30 m3 is perhaps the best handling bmw made ... ever. provides the best feedback, etc. i think it's a matter of knowing how it works and how to get the most out of it. the m-coupe and m-roadster used the same rear suspension and i think they do pretty well

[DustenT]

Originally Posted by cali-ti

you mean the charles deming (sp?) process (who's an american, btw)? he presented it to the auto manufacturers here, but they weren't interested. their stupidity then is still being felt. only now are US autos even coming close. the process is one of constant improvement and takes time. between that and the unions, US autos are in deep doodoo.

I am referring to the process that Toyota used, called "lean production" or "Toyota Production System (TPS)".

In manufacturing you have 2 giant milestones. Henry Ford's original assembly line and Toyota's "lean production." Unfortunately Toyota's method involved cutting out the fat in an organization, or retooling employees for a different job. Neither of these options is popular with unions who are only concerned with the employee, not with what the employee is working to produce.

[davep-uk]

fair enough.

each to their own. i just think it could be better, i also think that they should have kept making them and also that they should have released an "M" Compact.

[steelejared]

I tend to take a certain pride in the "poor man's" label. I bought my car, a 1996, back in 2001 for less than it would have cost me to buy a new Ford/Dodge/Chevy/Hyundai or other brand new economy POS. I really value smart and frugal consumerism and I have always been glad to explain to the uninitiated that although I enjoy the performance, quality and cachet of a BMW, I paid less for it than the econobox compromise that the next guy is driving. Also, as an enthusiast, I enjoy being in the BMW game with other BMW lovers for a fraction of the price. I also do not mind offering that I am able to squeeze a very green and healthy 30mpg+ out of my car. Lastly, I know that none of us are deluded enough to believe that the ti is some sort of status symbol of wealth and conspicuous consumption -- such behavior would be foolish and vain -- indeed the status that we acheive is that of smart and discerning automobile enthusiast, who is able to see beyond the blue book and see the car as artful and ingenious no matter the dollar value. Frankly, it could be called the "wise man's BMW." Not that I haven't considered "upgrading" so to speak, but I have never considered getting rid of the ti, only adding another BMW, with differing qualities, to the family. "Poor man's" and proud of it.

Jared

[SDKmann]

My dad has owned many cars including BMWs and Porsches and has driven many others and has always said that the E30 M3 was the best handling car he has ever driven.

[cali-ti]

Originally Posted by DustenT

I am referring to the process that Toyota used, called "lean production" or "Toyota Production System (TPS)".

In manufacturing you have 2 giant milestones. Henry Ford's original assembly line and Toyota's "lean production." Unfortunately Toyota's method involved cutting out the fat in an organization, or retooling employees for a different job. Neither of these options is popular with unions who are only concerned with the employee, not with what the employee is working to produce.

cool. hadn't heard of that one i totally agree about the unions. they'll be the death of the exact people's jobs they're supposed to protect. the companies are forced to move production out of the country because of the overhead the unions demand. the only way the companies can be price competitive is to move production elsewhere. it makes me wonder how the japanese do it here. i'm assuming they still have to deal with unions. anyone know?