The rear hatch is too heavy. We need aftermarket

[Silver00spike]

The shocks on my rear hatch are completely dead, now I can finally feel just how heavy our rear hatches are. I'm estimating about 60 pounds, if not more. I know there are companies which make CF hatches for the 350z, maybe if we show enough interest.....

I'm thinking for minimum weight, the thing could be carbon fiber, and plexiglass to replace the natural glass.

[AlaskaBlue]

A cf hatch would just be awesome. Thats all there is to say about it. I would probably want one.

[cali-ti]

could be handy, especially since the lower lip on mine is rusting ...

[bluebastion]

Could mean a greater chance of fish tailing too.

[scottrt]

If your interested, I have a pair of used hatch struts with about 80 to 85 % of original pressure/force in them. Too good to throw away. Work great unless temp gets to freezing, then wont hold hatch 100% open, but almost. $ 20 plus shipping cost form 94582 UPS.
Scott T.

[city]

I would be interested in a cf hatch. see if you can find someone who would make one, im sure we could get a decent number of people interested

[AlaskaBlue]

Could mean a greater chance of fish tailing too.

Guess I would just need to get a carbon fiber hood to even out the weight loss in the back.

[cali-ti]

and/or move the battery to the back.

[Silver00spike]

I have a subwoofer and amp in the back to offset the weight. And battery. Scott, I'll think about it

[cali-ti]

i think i'd still want the safety glass rather than plexiglass, but if someone made a carbon fiber hatch for a reasonable price, i'd be interested.

[Silver00spike]

I emailed mashaw about it

[hellrot332ti]

Screw mashaw. That hatch will cost 2k dollars. You would need to contact VIS or Seibon. Seibon seems to make something for everything so i think they would be the best choice. I would rock one..

[cali-ti]

i just sent the following to info@seibon.com:

EDIT: and also customerservice@visracing.com:

to whom it may concern:

i'm wondering how much interest you need in a particular piece before you would consider making a body part in carbon fiber.

i'm part of a fairly active group of bmw 318ti (aka compact) enthusiasts and a number of us are interested in a carbon fiber rear hatch. what level of committed buyers would you need and would you be able to project a cost for such a piece?

thank you in advance for your response.

eric masshardt
www.318ti.org member

[Silver00spike]

cool

[cali-ti]

cool
well ... it'll be cool if we get a positive response. i'm hoping ... i don't want to have to pay to get my rear hatch fixed and i'm sorta worried about having it look right if i do it myself (damn rust). i'd like to do a carbon fiber hood and hatch - i think that'd look pretty decent with a nice UV/clear coat on it.

[AlaskaBlue]

well ... it'll be cool if we get a positive response. i'm hoping ... i don't want to have to pay to get my rear hatch fixed and i'm sorta worried about having it look right if i do it myself (damn rust). i'd like to do a carbon fiber hood and hatch - i think that'd look pretty decent with a nice UV/clear coat on it.

I think it would look great.

[cali-ti]

grrr ... one response:

Hello Eric,

Thank you for writing us. Unfortunately because we have too many projects
going on right now, we are not taking any custom jobs at this time. Sorry
about that.


Patrick Chua
Sales Associate
Seibon International, Inc.
20519 Walnut Dr. Unit C-5
Walnut, CA 91789

[DustenT]

How much structrual support does the hatch provide? I would think that a cf hatch would be a bad idea. If you get rear-ended (that happens a lot to ti's) a cf hatch isn't going to stop anything. The bumpers on our cars are too long for most collisions, so the hatch takes most of the impact.

IMO - CF looks ricey if it's not painted to match the car. I understand the benefits of lightweight body parts, but I don't think the hatch is a good candidate. I've seen lots of cf parts, including hatches, hoods and various body panels (mostly for hondas), none of them fit as well as stock sheet metal. Also, ever try to pull a dent out of fiberglass/cf? You usually can't fix them once they are damaged.

Put that money towards a motor swap, supercharger or 20" spinning rims! :eek: :biggrin:

[cali-ti]

How much structrual support does the hatch provide? I would think that a cf hatch would be a bad idea. If you get rear-ended (that happens a lot to ti's) a cf hatch isn't going to stop anything. The bumpers on our cars are too long for most collisions, so the hatch takes most of the impact.

IMO - CF looks ricey if it's not painted to match the car. I understand the benefits of lightweight body parts, but I don't think the hatch is a good candidate. I've seen lots of cf parts, including hatches, hoods and various body panels (mostly for hondas), none of them fit as well as stock sheet metal. Also, ever try to pull a dent out of fiberglass/cf? You usually can't fix them once they are damaged.

Put that money towards a motor swap, supercharger or 20" spinning rims! :eek: :biggrin:
it may not matter if none of them are willing to make one. i'm also not sure how much the stock hatch really acts as a structural component or how well it could have any significant damage pulled out of it (small dents, sure, but i don't think i've ever gotten one on the hatch).

i guess it'd be nice to see some well done carbon fiber parts up close before buying to see how the fit and finish is as well as how they look. it would certainly be a contrast against the aqua metallic i have now. i really don't care for aqua metallic, but getting the whole car repainted i think would be really expensive. i'd want it to be done about like the factory job was and that would mean stripping out the interior and God knows what for the engine bay.

[cali-ti]

a delayed response from vis racing:

Sorry for the delayed response. We would need at least 25 people in order to make a carbon fiber hatch for the car.

i'm going to send back a question of what the estimated price would be, but let's start gathering interest. should i start a new thread or do people just want to post here?

[1996 328ti]

How much structrual support does the hatch provide? I would think that a cf hatch would be a bad idea. If you get rear-ended (that happens a lot to ti's) a cf hatch isn't going to stop anything. The bumpers on our cars are too long for most collisions, so the hatch takes most of the impact. :biggrin:I'm with you on this. Unless you need to reduce the weight for racing, I don't think this is a good idea for a street car. The hatch is only a danger in the winter months. Best bet is to use the stronger struts.

[PettitWC]

i think i'd still want the safety glass rather than plexiglass, but if someone made a carbon fiber hatch for a reasonable price, i'd be interested.

yeah, I'd be down if I had the money. that's an awesome idea

[SDKmann]

That much carbon fiber would make it really expensive. Im addicted to carbon fiber so I would naturally want/need one.

[cali-ti]

That much carbon fiber would make it really expensive. Im addicted to carbon fiber so I would naturally want/need one.
i haven't heard back from them, but i'm not sure it would really be that much CF. when i had all the interior trim pieces off my hatch, it didn't look to be that much structure to it. most of what the trim attached to is pretty thin metal. they would have a good deal of work to do to make sure all the little stock bits mount up properly. if/when they respond with a price, i'll post it.

[SDKmann]

Well my really expensive and your really expensive are probably two different things. Given my current situation really expensive is somewhere around $20.

[cali-ti]

yeah, i just saw your post about not having collision coverage :(

[SDKmann]

Yeah Im trying to see all the positives of it. I hope I wont have to drive it all busted up for very long.

[cali-ti]

ok ... here's what i got from VIS regarding cost. let's hook this up! i'll start a new thread to gather interest. we need 25 committed orders!

All our hoods and hatches alraedy come with UV protection. The price would be $500.00 per hatch. Half deposit down and hatches will not be made until we receive all 25 deposits.

[cali-ti]

the group buy thread is here: http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8012

i sent them a follow up email regarding a weight estimate for the hatch and also about shipping charges. i'll update the head of the group buy thread with any pertinent information i receive back in response.

[cali-ti]

Why would I want a carbon fiber hatch? I'm just curious.
i guess for the same reason one might want a CF hood or any other body part ... lighter weight, won't rust ...

[davep-uk]

i guess for the same reason one might want a CF hood or any other body part ... lighter weight, won't rust ...


gutted! i'd love one over here!

[AlaskaBlue]

gutted! i'd love one over here!

Sign up here http://318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8012 we would love for you to have one.



Cali-ti- Have you posted this anywhere else?

[cali-ti]

no ... where else should we? i forget if i even have a bf.c login. i'll post it to the yahoo ti forum, i know there are a number of people there that autox or race their ti's.

[cali-ti]

like i said, i'd love one but the shipping to UK would be horrible?
i sent them email for an estimate on shipping to the UK. will post back in the Group Buy thread if/when i get a response.

[cali-ti]

Is there a picture of this???

I know for me i wouldn't even consider it till i see pictures of it. Also if it's black isn't it going to look really stupid on the back of a non black car?
there can't be a picture of something that doesn't exist :) the only way they'll MAKE one is if they get 25 commited buyers. the appearance of carbon fiber is a personal taste as to whether it will look stupid or not. that's up to you. they can also be painted if you so wish. Clex2 has a VIS hood on his ti and is probably a good source to discuss their quality (which he did in the thread about carbon fiber hoods).

[Tyler]

I'm not interested then,sorry to let you guys down on this but i can't see buying something that i'm not sure i'lll like on the car. Plus i want more weight in my trunk for the winter season not less.

[cali-ti]

I'm not interested then,sorry to let you guys down on this but i can't see buying something that i'm not sure i'lll like on the car. Plus i want more weight in my trunk for the winter season not less.
no problem tyler :)

[cali-ti]

i sent them email for an estimate on shipping to the UK. will post back in the Group Buy thread if/when i get a response.
added info to the group buy thread, but also posting it here:

Shipping is about $350-395.00 for s/h.

[AlaskaBlue]

I thought maybe posting on bf.c I don't know if they have a special thing you have to do for GBs or not though. I don't know of any where else except for maybe dtmpower but that place isnt so good.

[cali-ti]

ok ... do we have any other questions for VIS? lol ... they're probably getting tired of me asking so many questions :)

clex2 wanted to know if it would be essentially an exact duplicate of the stock hatch with all stock mount points (like their hoods are). i'll send them email with this question and any others we have (i imagine their off during the weekend anyway so i'll gather up all questions and send 'em sunday).

any others?

[lkwd318ti]

Ask where they are located...
and if we can pick ours up if they are close enough...
shipping is alot lol...

and...well...this is a general CF question...but
I have a wing, and if I wanted to install it again (it requires drilling), would it be okay? or would it crack?

[Silver00spike]

Cali-ti, you're the man!


but before I commit, I need to know if its going to have a CF finish, and what material the glass will be replaced with, and will it have defroster lines.

So $625 shipped? I'll commit once I get the answer

[cali-ti]

considering they'll likely have to truck ship these and i can only imagine that they'll have to pack them very well, i don't think $125 for shipping is unreasonable (not that it's cheap, just "needed"). i will ask all these questions :)

Silver00Spike, my guess would be that there will be no glass or lexan in there at all, that you'd have to swap in your stock glass or have a lexan panel made, but i will ask the questions. they did indicate it would have UV protectant, i believe in the clearcoating that they apply on top, but again i will get confirmation. i should have gathered all these questions ahead of time, lol! and i'm not "the man," all i did was send some emails :tongue: (and it looks like i have more to send too ;) ).

any other questions people want answered? post 'em up!

[cali-ti]

Ask where they are located...
and if we can pick ours up if they are close enough...
shipping is alot lol...

and...well...this is a general CF question...but
I have a wing, and if I wanted to install it again (it requires drilling), would it be okay? or would it crack?
what materials is your wing made out of? how heavy is it? what does it look like at the base where it attaches to the hatch? this might be important info they'll need for a response.

[cali-ti]

I need to know if its going to have a CF finish, and what material the glass will be replaced with, and will it have defroster lines.
what do you mean by "CF finish"? would you be willing to pay more for a lexan glass replacement? if so, how much? can they even put defrosters on lexan?

[clex2]

"CF finish" is like how the hoods come, with visible weave under a clear coat. For a black car, or dark grey car it might be ok like this, but any other color I think should be painted to match. If and when I get mine, it will be painted, along with my hood.

Cali-ti,

please ask about the rear wiper mounting. Not that it's a big deal, but sometimes the little things make a difference (ie shows quality, attention to detail, etc.) From what I've seen and read, the honda civic CF hatch uses OEM glass and everything mounts up like the stock metal hatch. I personally don't want a lexan window. OEM glass for me.

[cali-ti]

clex2, i agree with you (re: stock glass window). i also agree about it having all the stock mount points necessary for all the trim, rear wiper, latches, etc. if it isn't a true stock replacement (except in carbon fiber), i wouldn't really want one either.

[DustenT]

clex2, i agree with you (re: stock glass window). i also agree about it having all the stock mount points necessary for all the trim, rear wiper, latches, etc. if it isn't a true stock replacement (except in carbon fiber), i wouldn't really want one either.

I would be surprised if the fit, finish and mount are anything close to factory. We have replacement carbon parts for the subarus and they fit like crap. All the interior trim has to be rivetted on, because it's too hard to mold factory clips/mounts with cf.

I would be sure that this company knows you are interested in this for daily driven vehicles. They might assume that this is for race applications, where fit and finish aren't as important. If the hatch doesn't seal correctly or latch correctly you will have all kinds of problems, like people stealing your car.

You need to come up with over $15,000 before they will make you one. I'm play the devil's advocate here, but this might be a sour deal. I wouldn't even consider putting up $625 until I got to see one IN PERSON. Like I say, I've seen some pretty crappy cf work, so I'm a skeptic. I'll find some pics of the cf pieces we had made for the subbys.

[cali-ti]

your point is well taken. clex2 at least has experience with the VIS hood. i'll definitely find out where they're located and hopefully (if we can even get enough people together) someone will live close enough to go visit to see the first one out of the mold to confirm that it's what we want.

are those subby pieces from VIS or what companies?

i don't think any of us wants a schlocky piece on our ti's so thanks for your post :)

[DustenT]

your point is well taken. clex2 at least has experience with the VIS hood. i'll definitely find out where they're located and hopefully (if we can even get enough people together) someone will live close enough to go visit to see the first one out of the mold to confirm that it's what we want.

are those subby pieces from VIS or what companies?

i don't think any of us wants a schlocky piece on our ti's so thanks for your post :)

I'll look for the pics, they're on my other PC. They were made by a company called CarbonArt, I think.

[SDKmann]

Dose anyone know how much the hatch weighs now and how much the cf one will weigh?

[cali-ti]

sorry, don't have that info. one would have to weigh without any of the trim pieces, rear wiper, latch, etc and i'm doubting anyone has done that. VIS indicated the CF hatch would be half the weight (but once you add the trim pieces, rear wiper, etc all back in, it may end up being more than half).

[GDB]

Also check on the latching mechanism, make sure that the stock one will work. I'd be interested in a few months, but right now money is just too tight.

[cali-ti]

holy sh!t ... i forgot to send the email! i'll get on it now ... sorry folks :)

[clex2]

What the........you mean to tell us your car is not your top priority? Sheesh.

[cali-ti]

damn job gets in the way :(

EDIT: and taking the gf to the doc.

[cali-ti]

ok, mail sent. 5 additional questions + asking them if we could have someone take a look at the first one out of the mold to make sure it's what we want/expect. the address they list on their website (www.visracing.com) is:

18856 east san jose ave,
city of industry, CA 91748

hopefully we'll hear back soon and i can post on BF.c as well. we have a long way to go before reaching 25!

[clex2]

Cali-ti,

Any word back from them yet? 25 looks a long way off........

[cali-ti]

no ... maybe i'll send a little message to check.

i agree ... long way to 25. i can get the original hatch for ~ $260 + shipping. of course, either way i'll have a lot of stuff to transfer :) also don't plan on getting to that for more than a year.

[J!m]

The shocks on my rear hatch are completely dead, now I can finally feel just how heavy our rear hatches are. I'm estimating about 60 pounds, if not more. I know there are companies which make CF hatches for the 350z, maybe if we show enough interest.....

I'm thinking for minimum weight, the thing could be carbon fiber, and plexiglass to replace the natural glass.

We seem to have gotten off track a bit here... Did anyone find a higher pressure lift cylinders for the hatch? Once that big wing goes on my deck I'm going to need more lifting power!

[cali-ti]

get the struts made for the hatch with the rear spoiler attached. i believe it's the 420N ones:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CG73&mospid=47506&btnr=41_0860&hg=41&fg=60

EDIT: HOLD THE PHONE! looking at the 323ti, there appears to be another choice as well (430N):

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CT31&mospid=47456&btnr=41_0860&hg=41&fg=60

[J!m]

For those without a rear wiper, the lifters for the hatch with the wiper would be a good choice as a replacement.

The problem is, for me, I have the wiper AND a rear wing heavier than the 'correct' (but non-functional) M wing. So, I'm looking for lifters with the correct length, but a bit more 'nut' to lift the heavier assembly...

I'm thinking after the work is complete, remove both lifters and use a scale to determine the force required to lift the 'new' hatch, and finding suitably rated lifters...

I'll post what I find here, but I don't think they will be much use to the rest of you, as most wings are not as heavy a the M3GT sedan wing...

J!m

[aceyx]

I thought the LTW wing was supposed to be "light":biggrin:

[J!m]

No, the CAR is light, not the wing... You can probably sit on the wing without deflecting it (as long as you weigh less than about 400 pounds or so)...

[Silver00spike]

to get the weight of your hatch, you could suspend the end by a string, and put one of those handheld scales with a hook on the string

[andyman7931]

to get the weight of your hatch, you could suspend the end by a string, and put one of those handheld scales with a hook on the string


it would read much less than the actual weight of the hatch because the hinge would hold up some of the weight.

[thekinwc]

I once saw a web site that had light weight fiberglass parts for e36. I'm talking even the doors. Not sure if I saw trunk hatch. This was before carbon fiber was popular. Wasn't that interested at the time. Can't find them now. Why am I here again?

Oh I found it.... Mashaw as someone said earlier. They seem pretty serious. No blinking lights,scroling ads and dancing wheels on there web site.

[J!m]

M A Shaw IS serious...

I may be wrong, but I think the 'weight' of the hatch needs to be taken with a string acros the lifting strut mounting points with a fish scale or similar. Let's say the scale reads 125 pounds. Based on this, you would need two struts, each with a lifting capacity at or above 63 pounds.

I think the lifter is sold by the weight it can lift, not the weight of the part it is lifting. Because of the disadvantage being closer to the hinge, the 'weight' the lifters see is higher than the weight at the edge (farthest away form the hinge).

Does this sound reasonable?

Then the last thing is the length of the lifter, which can be equal to the stock lifter. It seems easy enough...

[Silver00spike]

M A Shaw IS serious...

I may be wrong, but I think the 'weight' of the hatch needs to be taken with a string acros the lifting strut mounting points with a fish scale or similar. Let's say the scale reads 125 pounds. Based on this, you would need two struts, each with a lifting capacity at or above 63 pounds.

I think the lifter is sold by the weight it can lift, not the weight of the part it is lifting. Because of the disadvantage being closer to the hinge, the 'weight' the lifters see is higher than the weight at the edge (farthest away form the hinge).

Does this sound reasonable?

Then the last thing is the length of the lifter, which can be equal to the stock lifter. It seems easy enough...
then attach the string to where the shocks mount :)

[buckowens]

Here is a learn from my mistake segment...

I went to replace my struts tonight, and after getting the spring clips off, I tried to remove the top of one strut. My thinking was that these things are basically sharing the load 50/50, but I must have picked the better of the two to start with. When the top came off, so did the bottom and the hatch crashed down onto the old strut which was caught in it's path. It slammed hard enough to twist the hatch and was enough to shatter the rear glass. I am sick over it, especially after seeing one quote of $567.00 from a major auto glass repairer. I have checked the auto recyclers, but I am afraid to try this on my own as it lays flat for the water to find ways in... Any suggestions would be great. I am beginning to drink after writing this.

[pdxmotorhead]

Did you get video of it? There's about 10,000 dollars in it if your lucky....(Just kidding...)

Dude that sucks.... I will definatelu use a 2x4 when I do mine...

Dave

[1996 328ti]

It slammed hard enough to twist the hatch and was enough to shatter the rear glass.This has happened to others. I remember reading about this on the yahoo list. Sorry. :mad: